A Comparison Between High Fidelity and Sansar


#1

Galen has given a good long comparison between High Fidelity and Sansar, as a comment following his appearance in the most recent Drax Files Radio Hour, called War of the Social Worlds


#2

That’s not journalism it’s propganda .Drax is paid by Linden lab to make this stuff .
It’s like asking Philip if he prefers hifi to sansar lol

These posts remind. Me of that guy who moved to Spain and keeps inviting everyone over to see how amazing it is but basically cos he’s bored and lonely there.
Untill these places actually have a use beyond standing around looking at things they will forever be second life clones .
I yearn for the time I can use any of these places and not just write about them .


#3

If there is no Linux client, it is non-existant to me anyway. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#4

Hifi is better with VR hardware. But sadly the desktop and user interface on the desktop combined with bad graphics makes high fidelity less interesting. With only good VR you not get far , especially if the graphics are bad to.

Hifi did have the change todo the desktop side correct, but the did not listen enough and ignored it to much. Same with graphics.


#5

Was schert es eine deutsche Eiche, wenn eine Wildsau an ihr scheuert? :wink:

High Fidelity is the future and we know it!

Two reasons:

  1. HiFi is implementing - if not inventing - all the innovations which will be standard in VR & the internet as such five years from now (decentralised domain hosting, digital currency, blockchain based IP protection, etc.).
    Sansar is building on an oldschool system which - at the very moment of its introduction - is already outdated (centralized server, company controlled currency, closed system, etc.).

  2. HiFi is concentrating on fun stuff to do in VR.
    When experimenting with their first HMD, users can check out all kinds of mind blowing & body caressing actions in HiFi which they can’t experience in real life (flying, speeding, walking upside down, building & painting in three dimensional space, experiencing phantom sensations when walking through other avatars/entities, looking at themselves in self designed dream bodies and more to come every new build…).
    In Sansar all users get is a decent visit to a museum while being detached from their own bodies.
    Furthermore (personal sidenote) Sansar is the only VR environment making even me (who can’t get enough of virtual rollercoaster rides in HiFi & other applications) dizzy in VR.

Let’s Sansar just have all those consumption-oriented lifestyle users they are after for now.
Sooner or later their vintage system will succumb to the challenges of modern day VR.
And then the only solution for them will be to migrate to HiFi as a hosting platform.
Which will bring us a fantastic looking domain with lots of new users willing to pay for all the great sensual VR experiences they weren’t able to have on their old system.
And that’s win-win for both worlds in the end, isn’t it?

:purple_heart: HiFi :sunglasses:


#6

I’m absolutely on your page regarding this point!

But I’d like to point out that the panel round Menithal & me met on this podcast consisted of really sympathetic, interesting & polite people and it’s been inspiring to get to know all their different points of view.

Galen’s comment imho is a really good read and - although I’m not on the same page with him - I really enjoyed following his argumentation as it provided me with new insights on which features might be improvable in our beloved HiFi :sunglasses:


#7

Ill probably comment on that on the second round. Specifically the part on

A. Cartoony worlds: This is actually fault of High Fidelity welcome areas being cartoony instead of showing off all the PBR which is already in High Fidelity. They are also very quick whipped up, and I am sure if they hired an artist to work on a proper environment, they’d have one, instead of rehasing Unity Asset stores and stuff from very old compos… But all of the above, mostly hasnt been refined because of his Second Point:

B. Content Protection: There are stuff in the works (Material Bundling with compressed models via draco for hifi-only models), ATP, among others. They are not in yet, and have a good ways to go to get solved; but they will make it slightly more difficult to rip up models.

Of course it will not solve it fully, because there are fairly simple ways to rip assets directly out of Memory via tools like RenderDoc, GLIntercept, but atleast it makes it a bit more harder. I mean quite a bit of content in SL is brought in with this method from games and LL wont bat an eye unless they receive a DMCA or an outcry (aka once they get caught). Infact for a VR space, we have been quite restrained with similar stuff in High Fidelity, aside from that one slip up with the TF2 models :wink:

So of course no sane artist will put 100+ hours to creating an environment that everyone knows another can take and place down elsewhere, unless they just dont give a damn about it. Plus if they were that talented, they would have positions in actual gaming companies, not work some paltry amount of “content cash” in places like High Fidelity nor Sansar.

Which basically addresses his main gripes. They go hand in hand, but both are absolutely solve able.

Sure Sansar has artists: Mostly because there are damn good artists behind there, and the tools are easier work with, without having as many technical challenges to work around (which get better and better over time).

Capability wise, however, High Fidelity is alot more malleable and already has quite a few features in, aside from some post processing… (where are my shadows plz). What else platform allows you to create your own solution for controlling your facial muscles, or creating physics for clothes?

Here Most of us are split between many projects.


#8

Sansar users arent troubled with transparency or pbr so they have an easier time. I dont wanna get into a s%^& slinging thing.Sansar has its own goals
Theres this quote imma hack up and tweak

Its not secondlifes job to be original its its job to be second life
in a similar way its not sansars job to be original its its job to be second life

original quote was about the rolling stones and the black crows
but u get the idea
Chasing secondlife users as the one and only market for vr is pointless they are happy being in secondlife and complaining about things as they allways have and allways will.
Hifi needs to appeal to different people than us sl refugees/shutins or it will never be anything


vr users being significant together


#9

Agreed. I keep popping into HiFi. I want to see it succeed and do its own thing. Chasing SecondLife users is very limiting, when there are many other people connected to the Web and who have either not used or rejected SecondLife (and by default, Sansar too). Hi Fi needs to be a fresh approach to virtual. It needs to be as different from Second Life as Ready Player One is different from Snowcrash.

Remember that we are entering a world where inventiveness is the only thing a human can offer. Machines and Deep Learning will take away most of our roles, so humans will want to be innovative and creative. Hi Fi is flexible so offers that possibility. It is also Open Source so can be used in a myriad of ways. I wish I were tech enough these days to be able to innovate using Hi Fi.

Think of what you want a virtual world to be - not what you have seen it being in the past. Pokemon Go proved that people want augmentation rather than immersion. Can Hi Fi be adapted to offer this as part of it’s product portfolio?

Let’s think, and make this the best future for everyone.


#10

Both suck equally in different ways.

I’m more concerned for Social VR in general, how is it different than any other creation platform? Unity/Cryengine/Unreal etc…?


#11

Disagree. Works fine on a Macbook Pro from 2014 with an integrated Intel GPU. If you’re using an underpowered Windows computer then… maybe you shouldn’t use Windows?


#12

Hifi

Sansar


#13

As for me, I like Turtles.


#14

Yeah… good desktop… It reminds me something … Ah yes… Second Life…
But here it’s for VR , not for Desktop… Desktop is, I think, only a back door thing in here. What’s the point otherwise.


#15

To be fair, HiFi does support shaders which can be used for post-processing.


#16

There’s the point what makes hifi useless.
Yu never go use VR all the time.
VR must be option, so desktop need be the main thing. my use is 80-90% desktop. the last 10 is VR. You also never go build in VR, that explain why desktop is important.

As long the ignore that i think there’s a problem for lot’s of people. Also, i still hste the tablet in desktop mode. Dont think it’s improved.


#17

I agree Rich. I had a Rift DK2 years ago. As impressive as the tech was, I always felt relief taking it off. It’s not fun having a brick weighing down on your head for so long. It would also accumulate sweat (the temp here can go well past 37C in summertime) like crazy. I had to take a break like every 10 minutes to wipe it off.

I love exploring virtual worlds in VR, but not creating them in VR…
VR is like tablets and mobile devices - they’re great for consumption and viewing, but too limited for productivity and work.


#18

VRChat has cloth and bone physics. And it also has visemes that allow your face to move in response to the sounds your voice makes. And it has shadows.


#19

I - for my part - just :purple_heart::purple_heart::purple_heart: being in VR!

When doing Google Blocks, TiltBrush or now HiFi Shapes I put on music and I get into a creative flow state which let’s me forget time but not space (cause that’s what I’m dealing with when building in VR :wink:).

If the summer gets too hot, I employ fans or air condition.

Of course - for the time being - there should be a decent 2D solution as well for people with a professional backround in desktop 3D modeling.
But - being a Virtual Reality platform - imho HiFi should definitely put its main emphasis on optimizing the inworld VR building tools!

Working in VR is the future!
My bet is that ten years from now modeling in a 2D environment will feel as vintage as the sound of a 14,4 modem does now :sunglasses:


#20

I wonder what you do with the other 0 to 10%…
but well… the objective to do in VR, and it’s a long term project… for the software and the hardware aspect.