After the Meeting Last Night


#1

So, I listened to Philip talk about HiFi and his dreams for an interactive future. I love this, and support it with all my heart and soul.
Here are my thoughts. I am putting them here, because I want to see if I am alone on this.
I have no trouble seeing where HiFi is going. Scalability and interaction are vital to the future of VR. However, I want to jump in and do all of this right now! I am grateful that money is not the issue for me, but I don’t have the tools to engage in HiFI in the vision presented to me now. I want to make games for the Winter Village. I want to hand guns to @thoys. However, I can’t get an Oculus, nor a Hydra, because while I am ready, these items are not yet ready for consumers.

As I write, I guess what I am saying is that I have to wait…wait until the tools become readliy available.
Am I missing something? I want to play!!!

tl;dr: I want to jump in, but the tools aren’t there yet? Edit: Typos


#2

Yes where missing soemthing @DrFran HMD and hand controllers ! And many will follow with this problem. Philip is saying people upgrade. Still not su sure about it, If i look to SL i see more the opposite direction. People keep running on old hardware or buy the cheapo laptops with bad graphics support. more and more people want it on the (yuck) smartphone.

I have a hugh conflict inside me about that, i cannot combine HMD with lots of people i know. Lot’s of people do not have so much money to buy a GF980 and HMD also for myself 500$ is a bit high but we need to see. But i first need to have the option to test it in RL. Other people i know prefer to stay in chat text. And yes, chat text still have it\s good and strong side if done correct and can be less confusing then voice. But it’s a challenge to see if yu can work without chat, mouse or keyboard. But it can also slowdown the growth of high fidelity (and mabye sansar?) if there’s no good mouse and keyboard support.

Yes some games cannot be played, mabye that makes it more frustrating if mopuse and keyboard is not supported so good as HMD in high fidelity. it means that most of the people cannot have fun in high fidelity for i guess at least 6-12 months, i guess after that it’s available in local stores.

Now where anyway talking about HMD, it’s nice it sounds fun. But nobody seems to stay still at the fact that there are people that cannot wear HMD or not see depth with HMD. So high fidelity get useless then (and SL still to expensive)

And yes, with high fidelity people can write there own tools, that’s good point so mouse and keyboard edit tools can made better. In other words high fidelity can be made so it can work like Secondlife. But also that takes time and learning.

And, yes i need to say it, there’s still SanSar. and it would be nice to know more about that. it makes possibl;e choices for people more easy. Also after that choice you can better concentrate on what scripting you need to spend all time on. Thinkering about try to make own edit tool. but, that’s right now a challenge too.

Sorry if it mabye sounds a bit negative at some point, but it’s how i feel the last time. Confused. Also because HMD can keep people i like to see in then same world away from high fidelity. But that can also happen with SanSar. Weak argument :open_mouth:


#3

Nah it is still awesome even without a HMD. I logged into SL the other day and it literally turned my stomach. I felt like throwing up.

SL feels very retro compared to hifi.


#4

Ok. it’s not useless. But not want to make the same mistake as before with opensim. it did end in a small fail for me. i still run it, for now not do so much with it. (it can still change)

But… it’s to lonely in opensim. And that is one of the parts that make things more complex. with high fidelity. (and sansar too) Just take a few days of blender i think. :open_mouth:

I mean, i love High Fidelity. The right build scale the feeling that your inside something you can call home. because the scale. that always annoyed me in SL and OS. the way you can build mesh. nothing can beat High Fidelity. SL is behind it in the dust.

But the HMD stuff gives me lots of problems.


#5

@DrFran  I share much you say, I do stuff that basically i did in SL or Open Sim,but now creating worklflows for HiFi and refining stuff for asset creation. Many days i am completely out of my depth code wise - hear my moaning at the perceived lack of documentation ! Its hard, but exciting given the landscape is so predominately code

There will be no stopping the HMDs and hand controllers, The pc gaming industry not HiFi will drive the uptake of Occulus and Vive and it will be gaming’s coming of age, and in a couple of years they will be as common as mice, I’ll buy an Occulus as soon as available (i can’t wait !) and i wonder excitedly at the opportunities a Vive will allow, but meantime i just grin and bare it and trust Phillip’s vision while thinking there is little point in doing what has already been done before and it can only be - onwards

@cracker me to i thought my graphics card was missing a driver


#6

Well, just need some day to relax and slowdown a bit. Figure things out.

Because high fidelity is still super.
And i need to keep in mind,
"if it’s broken you can fix it or try to make one yourself that is doing what you want"
Sofar it’s possible with skills.


#7

Its been over 6 months since I joined into this, and during that time we have had massive revisions occur during the timeframe. Some large leaps of progress, others more of a backwards step, overall its always going forward. Even though I disagree with some areas of focus.

What @ritzo mentioned here is pretty much how I currently am going on with this, but I share concerns with @Richardus.Raymaker.

The direction and vision for HiFi are fantastic, but available content is currently lacking for normal users, while current tools and documentation for tools to create content is lackluster for content creators.

We are at an paradoxial impasse, atleast for content creators and regular users: clearly everything is still a very work in progress, so only actual client and server developers can drive everything forward. But even so it seems that there is a drought of developers here that touch the client code (not counting js, that I would categorise as Content creation), and most of them work for High Fidelity, Inc.

Without content we do not have a world for others to be in, and without others there is no world to hang about in. And without others there is not content creators, and without content creators there is no content.

However all we hear directed to the public is about the work for HMDs, and Hand controllers which are not out yet (yeah they are entering the market soon, but will there be a world people can jump into with them?).
Some response I’ve seen simply point that out that not many will buy or can afford them.

The current control scheme for majority of users, (Keyboard and Mouse) have issues. Its not an issue with movement, but it is an issue with controlling the camera; while creating scripts to effect the camera is hard to create without more detailed documentation and examples are lacking. If a Content creator has to spend way more time to learn everything instead of learn basics as they go, they are most likely just going to uninstall. Especially when no one else is on to talk to.
And without the content that supports the majority of user, users are going to uninstall. Cycle continues.

What would else compel content creators to stick about, to create content for regular users? We have no monetary system other than the work list, and it takes too long to create content to make something out of goodwill, especially when the user base is still so small. 3D Models take a while to create and I am not even daring to speak the scripting and its documentation.

And what exactly would compel normal users to start using hand controllers and HMDs if the basic keyboard and mouse controls (Or avatar customisation. Or attachment adjustment. Or Voxel Editing. Or even basic entity editing.) are not easy to use for the laymen, what exactly is the world we are creating aimed for?

We have to learn from previous VR worlds which made too many assumptions… And from those which refuse to evolve. We also shouldn’t lock users out by difficulty to use or gate content to a type of controllers or displays.

I had to get that out of my system.


#8

I am assuming the silence about the cryptocurrency (and lack of virtual economy progress) means they are busy pre-mining the crap out of it which is holding up content. You’re right nobody wants to create content for free and money is the biggest draw for content creators. That is turning users away because they only care about what they see (they do not understand what hifi is capable of).

I don’t know how many non-developer SL types I have talked to who weren’t very impressed with hifi. I am sure if they saw people making badass content they would say bye to SL and hang around a bit. IMO hifi is ALREADY better than any VW out there, it’s just a matter of getting users.


#9

Well, then where back to square one. pretty sure most of the suers that then would come are working with keyboard and a mouse. And yes, people that talk about hifi in chat the ones i know, are not really impressed.

  • To difficult in use, see below
  • No good building tool
  • No inworld building
  • No text chat, offcorse this have a possible solution.

Still think focus to much on HMD is going to be a big mistake. (2015-11-16) The future will tell.


#10

I’m working on it! :smiley:


#11

Honestly, it’s much less about the money inworld, since there are many ways to monetize externally. The real issue is how difficult it is to create anything here. This is alpha, actually very early alpha. Interfaces are in flux or are outright missing. I do not expect many people to be here at this time, but I do expect people with skills (and we have many) to have an easier experience. The next real issue is how to protect those assets. That system is completely missing, so of course people are not going to create high value content right now.


#12

Is a video of the meeting available?


#13

See the meeting annoucement topic for the video.

In anycase yes, thats pretty much what I discussed within my post.


#14

“SL feels very retro compared to hifi.”

Could you elaborate on this.

I tried HiFi recently and I really thought it’s very early days with the platform and it looked like Sl from 2006. I still perform in SL and I’m also a Unity developer so up to speed on what currently should look good.

I’m not dissing HiFi, I’m interested in all platforms. I think the OP has a very valid point re: hardware as well.


#15

To me it is that the promise of next generation looks good, and though we have seen glimpses of those promises, the base infrastructure is majorly incomplete.

What I do not see are architecture or design papers that show how it is supposed to work, I see no design docs enumerating the different input modalities, describing the conflict areas, resolving them, or even lists of things that need consideration. I see no roadmap to which I can make decisions and plans on what to do and when to do it.

I can handle incomplete I given a compass and map. I can well understand if HF mgt believes such documents are sensitive and not to be disclosed. If so, say so please! Then I can walk away and have another look in 6-9 months.

I do virtual physics, vehicles, AI driven creatures, I do real-time designs, and I haven’t a clue how to apply my skills in this platform.


#16

I didn’t say it LOOKS retro, I said it FEELS retro. Big difference. Although IMO I do think HiFi looks better even in this very early state. It can do a very long list of things SL can’t, and you probably didn’t see any of those things hopping around a couple of domains.


#17

It’s not that, it’s that things are changing every day so it would be a waste of time documenting something that will be different tomorrow.

You can always check worklist.net or look at the sourcecode on github if you really need to figure something out.


#18

As a developer I’m used to quickly assessing software platforms, in look, feel AND functionality.

HiFi, as pointed out by a number of people in this thread, is currently long on vision and short on reality.
That’s not a bad thing if that’s what is communicated.

I currently don’t see or feel a lot of difference between HiFi now and SL circa 2006.

A few tech bells and whistles mean zip if the UX is more or less the same.


#19

So come back when it’s not in alpha then :slight_smile:


#20

It’s not even alpha stage atm