Branded content and Clara.io library


#1

Ooh wonders if hi-fi spent that 22 million securing the license to use the mini cooper from BMW . Ask me why grand theft auto doesn’t use real cars ask me ask me :slight_smile:


Beta Release 32
#2

No one asked Grrrrr. Well have u heard of second life ? Before your allowed to upload mesh to Linden labs servers u have to do the test.

Using some 3D modeling software, Cathy created a model of a car. It took her weeks to make the model and now she wants to sell copies of the car in Second Life. Cathy uploaded the car as a mesh to Second Life then listed it for sale on the Second Life Marketplace. The text of Cathy’s listing says “looks like a Mercedes.” Is this OK?


#3

Yes…
…if this Cathy was comissoned by Mercedes :wink:


#4

And they took it down. Right?

Never use a trademarked name with them or any other place that curates content. It gives them copyright apoplexy shivers. I recall when Avatar the movie came out, many of us fan builders made creatures that looked and acted like the Ikran flying banshees. I called mine Ikarani, everyone else called them Ikran or Torok Makto. About three weeks later all the Ikran were taken down. Mine remained. Why, because though all of our flying thingamabobs (expect for one guy) were originally crafted and were distant enough to not be considered copy derivatives and not infringing, the name itself was trademarked, hence the big Poof for them. One guy managed to make an almost identical replica. He made the mistake of using or deriving the wing and body patterns from the movie textures. Tsk, task. Poof! I used a fractal generator app to dial in my textures, and also NASA deep field photos (public domain courtesy of the U.S. government). A similar thing happened to StarTrek fans. In that case entire regions were taken down.


#5

It is your responsibility to ensure that you have the necessary permissions for the material you make available to the Service, whether it is made publicly visible or not. Exocortex will not be held liable for any damages arising from your distribution of materials via the Service.

lolcats

Its depressing because now hifi builders are now having to compete with potentially stolen content.
Whats next a market place link explaining how to rip stuff from secondlife?


#6

Everybody seems to trip over the name. i did not notice first, because i where testing clara.
What still end in a slight fail. Because the mini not looks like the mini from the marketplace.
Because high fidelity does not render it correct. Look at the wheels and lights.

But use brand names are a problem, and companies still not smart enough that the sell it them self.


#7

That’s something I mentioned month ago, when I tested that in a QA release on github. https://github.com/highfidelity/hifi/pull/8372

Beside the copyright probems it makes clara.io for me useless. But hey, guess it is more important as the other basic features some of us are asking for…


#8

Really i think here is the big problem i worry about for a long time. With linden lab the get the dirty work and complaines. And linden lab is doing the remove stuff .

But with high fidelity you get the request to remove it or the hodting is blocking access to the server or other ways i not know. But because it’s decentealized it’s much harder.

But i think companies etc. go complain at your isp, for dmca or take down… esy way and the isp need to contact you becse the company not know how to contact you. Or something like that.

Question is, if someone complains at clara the remove it. but the mini cooper get lucky installed on hour atp. So you not lose it. zuntil someone complains.

Confusing and complex stuff.


#9

By agreeing to this paragraph in Clara’s terms of service the Clara-user states that he will refrain from copyright infringement on the active part as well as that he knows about the danger of it on the passive part.

Aren’t we all grown-ups here?

If somebody pays real money in order to host a public domain on High Fidelity imho it goes without saying that he should do anything to make sure the stuff he is presenting in this domain has been cleared of any copyright issues.
If somebody isn’t smart or educated enough to do so, I don’t care if he learns his lesson the hard way and is forced to take his domain down.

For the leisure users who download an Enterprise NCC-1701 or a BMW for their private sandbox I’d say “No plaintiff, no judge.”.
And we can just hope that for VR there won’t be a wave of legal calls to order as it has been for the WWW.

I haven’t tried Clara yet in world, but what I can see from their webpage the huge majority of the 3D models there seems to be original content, and by uploading it to Clara its creators have agreed to it being shared publicly.
So imho it’s a really nice pool of creations for private users to put into their sandboxes as well as for public domain hosts to search for content which costs much less (respectively nothing) in licensing fees than corporate stuff.

Still I’d always prefer to get or buy creations directly from High Fidelity builders instead of having to do enormous copyright research when getting something from a more or less anonymous pool like Clara.


#10

Yes but can u look at mario or all the starwars stuff and go, is it? i didnt recognise it?

If hifi is going to be a pirates paradise, creators of original content wont go near it.
it will be like those shitty open sim grids. where people tell u its jsut the same as secondlife but its all free

im not sure opensource is the same a stolen

and looking through the clara thing theres crap and stolen content


#11

I have never been to Second Life so I can only theorize…

I think that this “pirating possibility” will regulate itself.
Sooner or later somebody will get into legal trouble for putting to many Enterprises or the like on his domain and then users will be more careful regarding possible copyright infringement.

What I find more disturbing about Clara is that it takes the motivation from builders to create content designed especially for High Fidelity.
If potential customers can get tons of user-created stuff from Clara for free, nobody can be sure if it’s gonna be worth the effort to design content custom-built for High Fidelity.

On the other hand it’s open to anybody to create an own brand for the High Fidelity market that surpasses Clara in terms of licensing transparency, technical execution and creativity.


#12

I no longer can log into Second Life ever since they tried to push an onerous TOS, which I refused to accept, where they basically tried to claim all fair use, required me to accept any and all defense of them for IP someone else might have foisted on me. That was years ago. Haven’t been to SL, no regrets, will not use the services of companies who push off the otherwise shared responsibility of copyright and trademark infringement onto their customers. Now I see the Clara TOS, same issues. Not using their service. Why? Because the TOS is onerous well beyond ethical limits.

Ask yourself this. Scenario 1: An artist makes a wonderful model. Artist stipulates they made it and it is other agents IP free. You buy it directly from them. Scenario 2: Same artist uploads it into Clara, same claims. You buy the model from Clara. Now assume in both scenarios it turns out the model you bought and used prominently in your virtual world had someone else’s IP, worse IP from a very large movie production house. They decide not only to do a takedown but to punish people and you get a court summons.

So, what are your chances and your costs to defend yourself in each of the scenarios? And for contrast, in scenario 2, the Clara attorneys remind you of the TOS your signed, notably this paragraph:

“As such, you shall defend Exocortex against any claim, demand, suit or proceeding made or brought against Exocortex by a third party alleging that your Content, or your use of the Service in violation of this Agreement, infringes or misappropriates the intellectual property rights of a third party or violates applicable law, and shall indemnify Exocortex for any damages finally awarded against, and for reasonable attorney’s fees incurred by, Exocortex in connection with any such claim, demand, suit or proceeding; provided, that Exocortex (a) promptly gives you written notice of the claim, demand, suit or proceeding; (b) gives you sole control of the defense and settlement of the claim, demand, suit or proceeding (provided that you may not settle any claim, demand, suit or proceeding unless the settlement unconditionally releases Exocortex of all liability); and © provides to you all reasonable assistance, at your expense.”


#13

On the one hand I don’t think that such a passage could stand it’s ground in front of a judge…

On the other hand imho these draconic punishments are at least a good disincentive for people who want to upload intellectual property they don’t own.

On the third hand unfortunately nobody seems to read TOSs anymore.
Quod erat demonstrandum by looking at all the stuff from Clara (Enterprises, My Little Ponies, Porsches, BMWs, etc.) which is screaming “copyright infringement” all over the place.


#14

It costs a lot of money to argue that point, and whether such language stands up or not is highly determined by the state to which the legal proceedings are anchored. In the U.S., California has, still, stronger consumer protection laws than other states.This is why any contract/TOS that you willingly sign containing such language will be very expensive to you in the end. Do not use services that attempt to limit your fair use rights, or make you agree to pay for their potential liability.


#15

So far i have only found crap. Or high fidelity need to get finaly compatible to normal standards. That means make it work correct with blender etc. So files load fine.

I have not looked good enough to know if it’s stolen, stolen from who ? and who stole from who ? As exampel someone in SL could have used a clara model in SL.

Also i think most of the clara tos is aimed for the people call creators that upload content. User’s in this case are a different complex story. the need to trust the info clara gives.

Problem, high fidelity not have inworld entitiy info that proof where the object is coming from and with what license and from wich marketplace in this case. And i think that is very weak point now in case you need to proof you not did create it.

Problem is only that you lose the license info when you need to edit some object to fix or remove things. For the mini cooper there’s a floor prim you not want as example. and right now the wheels etc. are broken . Not really soemthing to spend fix time on anyway.

More lose nuts and bolts.


#16

Here is my concern with Clara and their TOS:

I look for dragons. This is what I see/ Who is the real owner. If it is public domain where is the trace showing who or how was it placed it in the public domain?

OK, let try to download said dragon. I am now presented with a must signin dialog that says doing do binds me to a TOS. This TOS says I am solely responsible even if Clara, was told a model is problematic. Why? Because the TOS indemnifies them. Sorry, no deal.


#17

I see the dragons. with 3 different creator names.
And i accepted the TOS. Not say that i keep using clara.
Especially with the quality of content tried.


#18

It could be original content but it’s using other people’s intellectual property. Try selling Mickey mouse models and u will get a knock at the door ,call yourself Dr oculus and they will cut your balls off , right billy


#19

I know someone made a star wars t-shirt in secondlife. it where not long on the marketplace.

Mabye someday the see the light and the companies start selling there stuff in VR.


#20

Quote from myself less than a day ago on another thread: “Models randomly pulled off the internet generally don’t meet Lae’s exacting standards!”

My experience with any online grab-bag of user-contributed content of any form is very spotty at best.

On the rare occasions I see a 3D model that appeals to me in some way, I invariably want to give it a good hard re-factoring in Blender before I will consider it even remotely usable!

It is often easier to generate the content myself (and I don’t consider myself anywhere near competent with the creation tools! - I am a determined hack! :grin:). At most I use the downloaded item as a template to build my own version around.

For a look at the sort of shenanigans I go through, even with a reasonably good starter mesh: Hexland - Lae's build blog thread