Editorial: Putting Items On the High Fidelity Marketplace—Why Is It So Complicated?


#1

Putting Items On the High Fidelity Marketplace—Why Is It So Complicated?


#2

its not that complicated
proof i can do it

#3

A bit harsh in tone, but substantially true. I am one of those that complained for a lot of problems in the preparation / submit process, and only after months and thanks to an answer to the forum, I eventually came out with a workflow which appears really convenient and straightforward, without the need to edit any .json file.
I’m referring in particular to this: Adding more marketplace items

THIS DOCUMENT (or any improvements of it) SHOULD BE PUT AS THE RECOMMENDED WAY OF PUBLISHING STUFF ON THE MARKETPLACE.

Current documentation of the process in the official documentation as you stated is completely misleading. I tried to follow it and surely due to my infinite dumbness I was not able to follow, while the simple cheat sheet presented before is really clever and clear.


#4

You are fantastic @Judas I create myself a lot of video tutorials for my students, but in this particular case, the process itself cries for a written cheat sheet that creators can print and follow step by step.


#5

I hate making handouts


#6

Me too :slight_smile: But some of my students really do prefer them to Videos, and the proof is that there are two or three people routinely transcribing my videos and have them appear as perfect cheat-sheets. Have a look for instance to this one: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Mega15sIVqwW1ZOh6gttoee1-bd4GLpIeJlAH6wXpj8, it is a real important companion to my video explaining how to model and texture a bottle (for blender dummies).
BTW: when I talk about “students” they are actually 90% teachers and not 15 yo kids…


#7

as soon as u make the perfect tutorial they change the software
@.@


#8

Yes, the tone is hard yet this kind of negative attention doesn’t really help. I posted my first item today (for free) and the only license available was the PoP license. I wanted to clearly list the item as a CC0 license. The more restrictive, the less choices that are available, the more unattractive HiFi is starting to look to the outside world. Let people upload what they want and spend time arbitrating content instead of being the upload police. Youtube doesn’t police but arbitrate. You should learn from those who have gone before you. It’s impractical and counter productive to look at every submission. The consumers are smart enough and have enough taste to use what they want. Let the free market do what it does best. It might be good to let us rate items in the marketplace and allow us to determine if items are worth our wallets and or time.

We must remind ourselves why we love HiFi. The VR interface and options are still the most advanced out there. The focus on these features have left them doing catch up in other areas. I would not abandon the ship yet. There is allot of momentum and HiFi is showing allot of care and attention to the process. it’s a balance they are struggling for. I have no idea how many programmers they have working on the problems but the releases are becoming more frequent. The more input they get from the “Alphas” the more aware they grow to the shortcomings. Be sure, they are paying attention.


#9

There are actually websites releasing all of their own made content as CC0, HDRIHaven.com for instance, and TextureHaven.com and probably others. Absolutely HiFi needs to offer a CC0 option for Marketplace.


#10

I am a bit in the same boat (MIT License), so a workaround I have is to upload the content to a location where you can define the CC0 license and have an uploaded version on the marketplace as a ‘donation’ version (meaning it is CC0, but users have the option to send you HFC to support your contribution). That way, you can still have the item be the way you want it and expand your options a tiny bit. Yes, it can mean double listings, but I can’t really think of any other ‘current’ solution.

Overall, the entire market needs an adjustment. I mentioned this before:

To cliff notes it:

Though with further observations I’ve been doing with optimization focused testing, I also would like to add the following:

  • At this time, the website has ZERO optimizations. No good caching options, no compression (and mind you, a JS file is 965.6 KB and CSS file is 356.4 KB), no progressive JPGs (assuming that is up to their control or not). On my own browser, phone, tablet, and in world tablet, the web page takes forever to load up.
  • This mostly also applies to mpassets (the location where all marketplace assets are sent (this location isn’t exactly a big secret)). Compression where compression would be helpful is simply not used (seriously, gzip compression IS available on the client). HOWEVER, it does have caching enabled, which would be nice if Interface actually acknowledged it better (for those who want to know, the answer is 1 year).

In the end, the functionality of the marketplace is there and does technically work, but the usability is a whole other story. Some things involved also wouldn’t require that much work to even do (seriously, I enabled compression on my web server in less than an hour and the end result is a 60% reduction to most of my High Fidelity resources). I won’t dabble on security, since that is a loaded section that honestly is best not discussed fully, but anyone who has been hanging around should have an idea what a few concerns are.

If High Fidelity is going to win people over, they need the marketplace to be beneficial to its users, be it both sellers and buyers. The 73 upgrade will definitely help buyers, but does absolutely nothing for sellers, which is who the company is trying to cater to. Things seem to be moving in purely a simple and safe route while avoiding risks, which is ironic since doing so is risking failure.


#11

I take it you mean the single column of items being displayed. I’m not sure if VR sees this differently since my Vive is still on back order :roll_eyes:. It would be nice if the HUD could be resized to show more content. I personally didn’t find the process of entering items into the store as a problem. I’m not sure the attachment script is added correctly in the FST since I could not find an example of how it should look like when used with an attachment. I simply added what I knew which was: “script = model/tweed_fedora.js.”

I guess I will see when they respond with their review. In regard to the licensing it might be that they are trying to reduce duplication. If every item uploaded had one originator it may be easier to mitigate. I have no idea what their reasoning is. I still think they should focus on an API and let people build their own stores. They make revenue on every sale. The free market is always better. I can think of ways of creating my own store which could work around them yet I want them to be successful. They need revenue.

I want to attend one of the upcoming town meetings to hear what they are saying. It would be great if there were a transcription of these meetings so they and the community can review what was discussed.

The store itself works. The HUD will evolve over time. I would like for them to spend some time on the Steam integration and set it to not load by default. I think many early adopters of HiFi won’t have VR and it’s cumbersome to kill it when it gives us warnings without a VR headset. HiFi hangs on my computer till I close the multiple Steam warnings. HiFi will be a great motivator for people to purchase headsets on the other hand.

When will people realize that Sansar’s company is setting itself up to be the draconian metalord over VR worlds and that their product is light years away in VR compared to HiFi. The truth is Sansar is suffering it’s own problems with content as stated in this article.

We should start a new thread outlining our reasons for choosing HiFi over Sansar.


#12

I just found this quote in one of Ryan’s articles on Sansar. Why he stuck it in the middle of his Sansar review I have no idea but it may give us a tell on what HiFi is thinking in regards to PoP.

It is interesting to note that High Fidelity has proposed a fee of US$10 per item as a PoP listing fee for their new marketplace. (PoP stands for Proof of Product? Proof of Provenance? No one ever got back to me on what that acronym actually stands for.) High Fidelity CEO Philip Rosedale is quoted from this thread:

If we are going to be serious about protecting creators content, that means we need to carefully check for duplication of existing work as well as other rights violations at the time that we issue a certificate. We’ll conduct a manual search as well as put proposed registrations on public display for a few days. So the process of putting things into the market will be like registering a trademark or filing a patent. The long term cost of that can be whatever level of protection/search makes sense to the community – we don’t intend to make money there. We set it to $10 rather arbitrarily to start, with the idea that we would see how much it costs to do the work and how much we can automate it.

But the key point here is that we need to do a search for similar items, and that search is inherently hard. Otherwise people will copy each other’s stuff and register it (this has already happened in Sansar, btw), and that will make everyone unhappy.

While I think that it is highly admirable that Philip wants to protect creators, the PoP checking system he is proposing is going to set up is exactly the same sort of regulatory bottleneck that eventually throttled Blue Mars development. What’s wrong with simply setting up a system where users can flag an item on the marketplace, as you can in the Sansar Store or the Second Life Marketplace?

I tend to agree with Ryan on this point. I think they should “tax” each sale but the idea of having to pay for every entry in the store does not sound appealing at all.


#13

It created some loud noise in the begin yes. And i still see that idea as “not useable” Who is goinbg to pay 10u$ to put item in the store that mabye only sell 3 times for 50 HFC. tax on sales is still a better idea. because then you pay for what you sell. And it works in secondlife. It seems to work in sansar.


#14

Not related but I just got notice! My Vive has shipped! I am so freakin excited!


#15

What you see in desktop mode is the same area and amount you see on the VR tablet. It’s really unneeded and if you saw the post I was referring to, it’s not like it would be hard for them to show more than a single item at a time. Plus, if you navigate to say item number 20 and go back, you will start back at item number 1.


#16

I can see where that would be annoying. They should place anchors in the content so the return link would return to the last item you clicked on.