Give us an answer to our problem


#1

Since the removal of text chat, and the removal of users from the default scripts, please explain how a user can communicate to another user in the first instance.

You (developers) did this, you removed the tools so the responsibility falls back to you to explain to us how we are expected to move forward.

You must have some suggestions, cause you did this. If you cannot answer this question then maybe there is NO solution, you have removed the last line of communication, welcome to our world.

The world of the insular, hiding our names, hiding our very presence, hiding our chat tools, hiding our directory.

WTF?
We need an answer.

The main thing to think about is, “If its not running at default it doesnt exist for new users”.


#2

The user pool seems to be a pool they throw interested people in to find out which can swim


#3

I hear you. And it is really frustrating for many people.

If I were to tell you We absolutely want people to communicate, share information and places you might then ask why, on earth, these features were disabled from the default scripts. Particularly in an open source world platform where user generated content is everything. It’s confusing especially if you’re coming from years of SL, as many many of us do, and/or are used to a virtual world running as a centralized service. The decision to hide these features from the default scripts were primarily made by our founders’ product design committee, reflecting the philosophy of being creators of a platform rather than operators of a service. Admittedly the line between these two domains is blurry and the definition of what constitutes a platform feature -vs- a service, or a definition of what the responsibilities of a service is, is very fuzzy. Basically, the product team’s take on this decision is pretty firm, which sucks for many people, even though many team members at HiFi have hotly argued in favor of keeping these features visible by default.

The only practical solution to this problem, and I know nobody will really like it (sorry), is for some clever & industrious person(s) to figure out how to circumvent this and create a popular workaround. For someone to author an easy to use messaging, contact and bookmark exchange system, using the current state of the platform to make it easy to pass information to other users and allow them to respond in kind. Perhaps based on a web entity talking to a back end that you can rez out.

On the upside, where there is demand, or where features are missing, there is at least a wide-open opportunity for an industrious and clever person to create a portal or website dedicated to resolving these challenges, like an early Yahoo or Google for the metaverse.


#4

Thanks for the reply I feel the burden of trying to include and encourage new users to stick around has been lifted.are we to assume that all users will not be sent to your domains infuture as that seems at odds with your explanation .instead they should all go to their own sanbox/local host?


#5

It sounds like previous answers to the following questions need revisiting:

  • Is the removal of the directory still “temporary” until it’s reworked or will it in fact go away?
  • Is users.js going to continue to function in the future or is intended that it will be shelved?
  • Is the provision of the Examples directory still “temporary” until there’s a new Marketplace, or has the idea of a marketplace been shelved?

Timescales?


#6

Hiya,

With users & place directory, they will likely be rewritten to scale better but I don’t have a date on that. I know that Ryan is concerned about security controls being in place to make it harder for people to grief users & domains, which may also factor into the readiness.

Regarding Marketplace, this is absolutely going to happen and on a grand level. At least a year and a half away, because it will involve a federated asset server, which is to be developed, as well as front and back ends. Big job but super important.

Cheers
Caitlyn


#7

I am brand new on HF, and found this thread about the missing chat and user(names) - and I understand the politic behind that. But as long, there is nobody with a must have solution, I can’t understand this decision.

I think, new users must be very hard core if they decide to stay. Without to know who is online, or if somebody is coming around and speak (voice) to my avatar - while I am on other window and working on blender, the communication will fail, very frustrating.

And, I don’t want always just speak. I need to speak in my job the whole day, and I appreciate when I am online, to write instead to speak again. So hopefully they will think about this again.


#8

I like to know a time frame for inworld terrain and edit options . It’s a stopper at least for me to not have it !


#9

Good news, we are going to reinstate users.js in the default scripts. We’re going to make it opt-in by default, so if you choose to be visible, you can tick a box to show yourself on the list. This will protect the privacy of new users or those who wish to be uninterrupted.

Not sure when it’ll be back up, but it shouldn’t be too long. Thanks for your patience everyone!

Cheers
Caitlyn


#10

That is good news.
Thank you Caitlyn for adding some clarity to the direction.

What I take away from this is important to me.

It is clear that we (alphas and users) are looking at it wrongly, in asking for features that users need one way or another including primary visual communication. What is being built here is infrastructure, and with the projection of 18 months before a marketplace and currency is in place it is clear that appeasing users isnt where the energy is best spent, attracting users isnt a priority, and the platform is not yet ready for mass adoption.

So the development is concentrated on the framework, and as users we should be concerned less with how new users will fare, and more about how we as individual domain owners can improve our destinations for a future audience, not a current audience.

I think Judas nailed it [quote=“Judas, post:4, topic:10661”]
burden of trying to include and encourage new users to stick around has been lifted.
[/quote]

There is something reassuring about this way of thinking.


#11

Thanks @Caitlyn tis good news

I totally get the end goal
totally get that the online user list isnt good.
But i do believe that success for hifi must include users and whilst the current policy of wining and dining them individually before presenting them with a vive is impressive I doubt its sustainable in the long term.

I get that being the host to a vr community must be a nightmare, imagine being the person who has to read abuse reports in sl shudders. I much prefer a decentralized approach placing the responsibility on the end user.

I feel the stuff we go on about should be considered as temporary development tools set to create the conditions for life to evolve.

Now wheres my vive o.o :stuck_out_tongue:


#12

@Caitlyn regarding the workaround, what if someone were to create an external resource which would include:
1)Chat Script
2)User Name Display
3)User List
4)IM Service
5)Directory
6)Event System

This would not affect the core install, it would be something like:
Installing SANDBOX, then a dialogue box to say create an event to:
1)Would you like to install optional Standard Package (clever information here)?
2)Would you like to install Core Package?

Thoughts?


#13

This.

While I accept, even encourage, that most of the platform is decentralised, we have to guide the users to familiarise with the client and High Fidelity itself. While it’s our world, it’s your client. Lets use a browser as example; you’ll be greeted and shown all the basics at the first start-up. Then, a ‘New Tab’ page opens with some recommended links. We should copy that for the hifi client. Show them how to do the basic actions(run a script, change avatar+username) and then redirect them to a screen with some ‘welcome areas’ for additional support. There, additional scripts may be started when they join the domain.
While HiFi is still deep in development, for most people ‘Beta’ means ‘nearly finished’. So more casual people will visit High Fidelity eventually, we should try to not scare them off.


#14

I like that idea very much Kevin!

Definitely it would be well aligned with the vision, and yah such a package installation system, kind of like the way you can install software appliances packages on AWS/EC2 when you set up a server… Which is something we’d definitely like to add to the Marketplace…