Going out Staying in Judas's Blog

Sansar to me is garbage for they’re killing off old users just to make people feel like they’re keeping up to real VR

As far i know in the past i did say hifi is made for mobile devices. And the did proof it again with some app. While mobile stuff is terrible to use. Gosh, explains why the ui is so dufficult.

Is hifi ever going to grow and get like secondlife or sansar ? Hard to say, not much hope, it feels dead.

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I think the better question is ‘can’ and ‘will’.

Can hifi ever going to grow and get like secondlife or sansar ?

Very much. A bit like Neos, all the tools are sort of already available, but unlike Neos, the amount of content is absent and the fact that servers cost money to operate. While in the past, one could just spin up their own domain server on their PC, it was so unstable that both the Oculus and Steam editions pulled the server out entirely.

I mean, look at the recent videos for the ‘business’ edition of Hifi: pretty much everything in it is nothing special. If anything, it’s just a reskinned community edition of Hifi, with different apps and just being a different world. I think what hurt Hifi in one respect was charging for preset worlds at a super high rate which was previously free. If people could spin up a quick server and throw in a world from the marketplace, it could have changed things a bit. This could beg the question if the island they’re using now will fall into this respect since business will just see it as a means to avoid having to hire an artist and meet minimal requirements for operation.

Overall, High Fidelity’s capabilities are top-notch and is very open for expansion.

Will hifi ever going to grow and get like secondlife or sansar ?

Honestly, this depends. The problem is that Hifi changed their scope and has pretty much left the community version they started on as just the ‘open source VR’ project. So all the features requested like shaders, voxel octree (though that was THEIR idea so…), and domain zones to name a few are now honestly on the community to create, and that community is small. VERY small. In comparison to other platforms, Hifi is a breadcrumb at a picnic.

As for the virtual workplace project, so far from what I’ve seen, no current company I can think of would be interested in what can be offered from the videos presented. I’m sorry, but all I’ve seen is IMVU with voice support… or just Second Life with Vivox. Considering we’re now going back to Mixamo styled avatars again (remember that phase?), anything unique or special is kind of gone. I know it’s early, but the app can only do so much right now, and you can only get so many combinations before it feels like you are dealing with a clone army.

So, why would a company not use the Virtual Workplace system? A few major points from the standpoint of my current company:

  1. What does this offer that Skype doesn’t? I know the blog posts have all pointed out a few things, but lets be real: what does it offer that Skype doesn’t? Virtual pressence? While a good point, a company is not going to care. You have to convince people who are used to just standard telephone conferences that a 3D model on a screen that somewhat looks like them that requires learning to play what is effectively a non-objective game to navigate is somehow an improvement.

    On a more serious note, things like improved audio quality don’t really work either since most things are about the bottom line and just enough to work. Not to mention, the cost is just cheaper as well to just use a phone. What could be offered is improved latency, which could be shown to reduce talking over eachother in error due to the telephone latency. That could actually be pushed as a good reason for the system, yet nothing has really demonstrated this.

  2. How does using a virtual workplace improve the workflow of a common job? How does Hifi make my job easier? In some respect, my job would be a Customer service representative with some administration work. How does being in a virtual world help me answer phones and relay important and sensitive information to another person on the other side of the country? Mind you, I work remotely and nothing Hifi has to offer would improve my job in the slightest except for maybe allowing me to move windows around in 3D space if I was in VR. As much as I love VR, I can’t imagine transcribing information with a flight recorder on my face for 40 hours a week.

    If we take a look at some of the most common jobs out there, according to a few sources:

  • Retail Salespersons: Uh… no. Nothing in High Fidelity can help this job.
  • Cashiers: Again, nothing.
  • Food preparation and serving workers: Nope.
  • Office clerks: This one depends, but honestly, most information or questions would be done via IM anyway, so not really. So far, this is the only one that ‘could’ have something but there are better alternatives.
  • Registered Nurses: Actually, yes! Online doctors are actually becoming a thing that helps screen out weaker cases that just require something simple so physical doctors can focus on cases that do require more attention. While a remote nurse is stretching things a bit, some information like varying scans could be viewed by multiple people at the same time in the same virtual workplace, and even point things out in realtime.
    I know this is technically for a nurse and not a doctor, but I’m sure that some similar use for when a nurse can’t come in for the day could provide assistance in monitoring something and still collect pay.
  • Customer service representatives: Not really. Even as a remote worker where this is the closest thing to a job description, having a constantly active voice channel where my avatar is most likely going to be in a virtual cubicle will not really do much more than what I already have now. In most cases, the idea is to get a customer’s problem resolved as quickly and accurately as possible, and while having the possibility of yelling at a worker to save something I was working on instead of IMing them where they can just ignore the IM, that’s the best I can think of and even then, the fact I work remotely means I don’t have to listen to the bantering going on around me. So why would I subject myself to the exact problems most call centers have for a more authentic experience when that experience sucks?
  • Waiters and waitresses: No. Not at all.
  • Laborers and freight, stock, and material movers: Maybe. In this one’s case, it’d be a like a giant radio system that all employees in the same area could be connected to so they can remain in constant conta- oh wait, that’s called a Radio and we all now have things called cellphones. Not to mention, the idea is to keep driver’s eyes on the road, so having anything visual isn’t helpful. Pass.
  • Administrative assistants: Yes! This is where I can see this working, where varying assistants can talk with eachother and their primary contacts. The problem is again that something has to be offered that makes Skype inferrior. Perhaps try demoing where conferences can be modulated in real time.
  • Janitors: To clean up this mess? Otherwise, no.

So the software is only partly usable by administration users, which is a very small market. Sure, we can talk about the sunshine and daisies about more independent companies, where the group is smaller and thus doesn’t really fall under the list above, but that’s an even SMALLER group at that!

Of course, it also begs the question: is the virtual workspace supposed to work as a background system? Back when I did greeter work, I was considered online when I was in the domain and in the proper avatar (later changes would then also require a unique account). When I do work with my current job, the login time is based on my sign-in email, whereas back as a greeter, it was via IM. This was just to timestamp the arrival more formally. In all these cases, some kind of software runs in the background, be it a VPN, a phone system, or High Fidelity itself. So that’s my question: Is High Fidelity supposed to be an active application like a phone system or a temporary like a video conference?

This is where the concern basically comes in: While the limited scope of the virtual workplace is more manageable, I don’t see where it can actually provide active improvements that would be adoptable. Not to mention, my current machine for work is a Dell PC from 2012 and that isn’t very uncommon to have older machines in active use in offices. Hifi would have to run pretty much on integrated graphics, and considering how much they kept pushing for the latest bleed edge stuff, that ship set sail by their own hand ages ago.

So… TLDR:

Will hifi ever going to grow and get like secondlife or sansar ?

Not unless a lot of crap changes or a miracle happens.

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There’s one big thing in high fidelity also wrong for a very long time, i forgot that.

The desktop UI is terrible, and not a complete system but different parts with different problems. Like the log, debug windows that have font problems. The tablet is never replaced in desktop fir something that works good for multitasking.

Try to build and then adjust voice. You lose you build states. The whole UI is one reason i dis say hifi is a fail. The sre still thinking app based.

Sansar have a bugger change to get in the market that hifi want. There’s no usefull reason to use hifi. At least i do not see anything that hifi is doing better.

I agree the did have a few good ideas in the days with zones and i think catching things in vr works bettyer with hifi. But the did throw it bathtube out of the window with the kids still in.

The main problem that hifi failed, the did keep aiming and mabye still do to much on VR. Also that people need to run there own servers did not help to, on top hifi is a but bandwidth hungry. That created problems to.

Am still curious how hifi is in 2 years.

Sundays Salon, everones telling us we’re wrong and still the community holds and attends events.
why?

Hope is difficult to kill, even with an heavy shovel…

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Im advising all users to go white list only
The latest griefing role play thing the attention hungry coding virgins seem so into . The devs dont care about it why should they
they went white list
I went whitelist too
Screw making the platform attractive for new people
thats the devs problem not ours.

There are still users in high fidelity ?

sadly yes, and enough to warrent people scripting attacks
its like they know hifi represents the greatest threat to their platform so are doing everything possible to wreck it.
problem is cus its open sorce it dosent actually require the company to exist and grow.

Or learn to secure your domains better. There’s that.

i dissagree completly
that method is entering a armsrace with the coders they are an arrgoant bunch obessed with wrecking everything
The whitelist method in hifi has never been defeated and is nice and simple
and more importantly
you have total controll who gets in or who gets kicked out
in a regular doman its all alts and proixies and all that rubbish

create a white list
lock out the assholes
like hifi did

Why am i still in hifi?
Remaining users have been accused of being a cult of some kind lol.
Thats maybe true.
Why havent I jumped over to a different platform?
I’m interested in building in 3d im interested in emerging technology
and i’m interested in the educational potential of VR.
All these things i can explore securly in hifi right now
I dont require anyones permission to go about my buisness,
and I like that. I dont have to upload my work to somone elses server to to do any of this.
Im not seeing any features on other platforms that make me want to jump ship.
Im old and jaded and dont base my opinions on popularity.
I love the philosopical discussions I have in here.
I look at the forums and discords for some of the other vr platforms and keep myself up to speed with whats going on

I have no interest in joining in with the discussions over there
I see these worlds walking the paths hifi has allready explored and have a fair idea where they lead.
Im not convinced anyone has the recpie for the special sauce just right yet.

Lately im beginning to think that placing hifi amongst the gamer enviroment of steam and oculus is the wrong crowd. I would like to see hifi being developed more by the univertisy kinda demographic as the internet was. They have a different set of requirments to gamers and I feel they would be more constructivly productive.

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I still stand by my statements. Setting one’s domains to private to counter security concerns, when the idea is to let people in, is just a backwards approach to building a platform unless the true intention of the domain is to only be for a small group. When a new person comes in and sees Goto be a barren wasteland, it is very unlikely they will stick around. Of all the reviews I’ve seen, the ghost town state of the system is a major factor.

When a person can take over a domain and ruin it, it means that the security practices weren’t followed. If you build a public domain, you accept the responsibility of keeping things safe for users coming in, due to the nature on how Hifi domains work versus usual websites (IE: Hifi’s ability to edit a domain in real time whereas most websites are draft and publish lifecycles). Locking a domain, using a good filter, and establishing a list of acceptable scripts are just some of the most basic things to take into consideration.

With my own project, these are things I have to take into consideration as well, due to the scope of it. I intend it to be public, and the fact it can spin a virtual server up does mean I have to be careful on how that all works. The room for abuse is very high, and that’s a risk I have to take into account. But do I say “Oh, people will try to abuse the system and I should just give up and let only select people in?” No, because that’s just bowing down to the source of the problem.

If the group’s intention is to build a locked down society for just itself, yet dabble with the possibility of it catching on… I’m sorry, but that is a tactic I do not see working. Part of why I praise the portal flight recorder (The Quest) is because it makes it far easier for people to jump in and try VR without a powerful machine, just as I hope my goal makes it easier to spin up a world and explore without needing any server knowledge. I find it both confusing and disheartening that this group would want to further seclude who hasn’t left yet also build additional barriers to prevent entry for possible new people, be it creators or explorers of a new metaverse.

Also, High Fidelity, Inc’s domains are ‘locked down’ due to the domains being exclusive for testing and for staff communication. In a testing environment and based on the fact that their current intended use of their domains is for themselves is understandable as mentioned above. Maybe in the future a public domain will appear to allow a walk around of what they have finished, but that is up to them to decide.

Likewise, I’m sorry but at this point, Hifi isn’t being advertised for anything honestly useful, and claiming that advertising to the ‘gamer’ environment was somehow a mistake is very misleading. Their attempts at education did show promise as witnessed with the tomb tour and the reasons for VR enhancing the experience making sense. Likewise, most VR tools are geared with gaming in mind, so claiming to not advertise to that demographic is a wise choice is like the fuel industry claiming their attempts to advertise to the car market was a mistake.

From what I see, there seems to be two kinds of people: people who want to build walls and improve what they have within those walls, and those who wish to build a foundation and leave the doors open. I may not agree with your decision to close your doors, but do not state that a system is failing when the conditions you created are the exact cause of failure. To state that no one is coming in and blaming everything else when you purposefully made it so no one can join in is contradicting.

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Both Fran’s domains have been targeted
What is your solution to users using proxy servers to re gain access? @FlameSoulis
When you go to a cinema or a event rl buying a ticket is the norm
Why isn’t this ok for our events?
Is your second like sim open to all?


Is hifi a Cult?
In the beginning there was nothing

Philip commanded let there be lag and there was lag

If hifi is a cult then the salon is the g spot

It’s a cult of course it’s a cult every virtual world a faction, each world is a different cult

Other worlds send out their fanatics to wipe us from the face of the metaverse

If we don’t worship their creator and their creation

We pray for better resolution

We pray for swifter processing

I have never been involved with a community so willing to stoop lower than this to wreak vengeance and destruction on its own people

I have never met more blasphemers willing to doubt the will of Philip

I recommend we go forth into the metaverse and mess with the shit of the other metaverses

As they have messed with ours agaisnt us

They shall have no other founder than Philip

For he has the pearly white teeth and sensible hair

And he can kick the arse of your founder

So I call forth the highfidelitians to write on social networks about how poor the competition is

Cos this is howeth the sheep feel powerful

Thy world shall have no more than a dozen users

Thou shall not have an alt in thy competing shitty virtual world

He who corrected my spelling shall be the grammar nazi and cast into the pit of the ‘Last gen’

Beware the Sansarian for he is not a journalist but in the pay of the linden cult and marketer and self-promoter

Beware of the unfamiliar blogger, he maketh out he ith bigging up the community but he speaks with a forked tongue and has nothing but garbage to say about everything and everyone

Beware of judas well because he’s called judas for a start, that surely should be some kind of warning sign right there.

And remember

No one wins unless everyone wins

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We need to be off the oculus market place and steam

They are attracting the wrong crowd we should be on Linked in and similar sites

What

Why

Because our intended demographic will get the wrong idea about the platform

If you skim the reviews on Steam they are all written by kids and social misfits. Usually with a grudge against the world.

How can we launch a platform aimed at remote working opportunities when you have a bunch of furries spitting venom at the place because it doesn’t meet whatever deranged idea, they have about what hifi should be?

Business we’re looking to build our remote working team

Googles hifi and finds 200 reviews from people complaining that they tried it but no body gave them the attention they felt they deserved.

Pull them off those platforms they haven’t brought in any users. Vr is on the back burner anyway

Next thing on rant list

Hifi has massive potential as an option to remove the daily commute.

This is an environmental saving opportunity, even Greta Thunberg seems to spend her time traveling around the world speaking to people.

We should be leading by example

Use hifi kill the commute

Kill the business trip

You don’t need to take that trip every time

I have ranted before that having a vr conference not in vr is just stupid.

Last thing on the rant list

Hifi when are you going to have a god damn open day and let us in to have a look

I know u don’t value our little community, but we are interested to see what you’re on with.

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and maybe an Open Day by invitation? You know whom the supporters are.

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As I understand it, the company is strictly differentiating between “Virtual Workspaces” which is all about spatial audio for desktop and “Open Source VR” which has rendered itself useless (non profitable) and probably will be taken off Steam as soon as new fees there will exceed the expenses of an employee going through the termination process.

As far as I can tell, there are no differences between the Workspaces and the Open Source VR except for the scripts used. That is to say that if you went into a virtual workspace with the same version created from the OSVR project, it will run just fine. Think of Workspaces more of a slimmed down version of OSVR without the create tool shown by default, market most likely also not visible, etc. Things that would normally appear on our end most likely do not on theirs since the priorities are different.

Or, in other words, you can basically experience the virtual workplaces if you can get your hands on what scripts are in use.

Thar u go don’t invite flame to the new build island he can see it in the code like the guy in the matrix