HiFi can forget about transaction fees. It won't happen


#1

I don’t know if HiFi is planning on implementing some sort of “HiFiCoin” or if they plan on using existing cryptocoins but they have said they plan on making money by inflicting transaction fees. I am here to say you can try to but it won’t happen unless you provide a lot of service and the fee is very very low.

By a lot of service I mean exchanging various types of coins with each other, wallet services, cash-out/cash-in services (good luck with FINCIN and State by State licenses though), scripting support, etc etc.

Why would they use a virtually worthless “HiFiCoin” (especially if it were pre-mined) rather than other cryptos that are far more established, have far more value and services? Furthermore, why would anybody want to pay transaction fees at all when they can use Bitcoin, LiteCoin and/or Dogecoin with zero transaction fees? This can be implemented in HiFi right now (using just javascript as it is) and it wouldn’t take all that long or much effort as there are many pre-exisintg APIs out there that can do everything we need them to do.

Ok so you can make a marketplace that accepts bitcoins and you can get transaction fees from that but it is just a matter of time before somebody implements the same thing in Javascript and charges less.

I am just wondering how HiFi intends to make any money at all. From what I see all they have are hifi domain names. Literally everything else can be done by others and HiFi will be forced to compete with its own users (hijacked with obfuscated spaghetti code maybe?). This makes me worried about the stability of the company itself as it has acquired millions of dollars of capitol and will have to answer to these people. Usually having to answer to investors is one of the worst things that can happen to a project.

Of course I am not THAT worried about it, since everything is open source anyway and nothing is stopping anybody from picking up where HiFi left off.

I am just guessing here, but maybe HiFi intends to do business the Microsoft way and look for projects that are making money and buy them out. Second Life did it too. Or maybe HiFi is just a vehicle to gather code to sell to other projects like Sansar and whatever Microsoft, Facebook or Google is working on.


#2

Well, various Linux flavors are also open-source, and yet the respective companies – Redhat for instance – do a fairly brisk business selling enterprise-edition support services and the like.


#3

They don’t exactly have a monopoly on that market, but yeah that’s a way any of us can make money with HiFi. I suspect telling users they don’t give a sh*t about their problems won’t earn them many loyal customers though.


#4

Of course, another thing HiFi, the company, can make money on is offering hosting services for domains, and also taking a small fee on sales at their Marketplace. This is even though there will, by definition, be other places hosting HiFi domains independent of that, and other places offering their own Marketplace for HiFi stuff. And of course they’ll be making money on us registering HiFi domain names with them, even though there will likely be other places also letting you register your domain name with them instead, probably the same places that would be offering independent domain hosting. But by definition there will be enough to go around. People will choose to host their domain at a HiFi-company owned server out of convenience or because they figure HiFi they can rely on to get it right regardless of what the other hosting services do. Others will go to the other hosting services because its cheaper. This is what you see now with opensim hosting services. Some of them are costlier, but you get what you pay for, some of them are cheaper, and some of them are WAY cheaper. I’ve seen opensim hosting services for as high as US$70 a month, and some for as low as US$5 a month. Again, you get what you pay for, though. I seriously doubt HiFi as a company is going to have any trouble staying afloat.


#5

They also have the power to hijack the source code any time they want. I suppose HiFi welcoming competition against them from their users is a good thing but I wonder how they will handle a losing battle (if that even happens).


#6

https://alphas.highfidelity.io/t/design-and-direction-for-protecting-content-using-the-marketplace/2767
This is what was said about the marketplace a while back

[quote=“Cracker_Hax, post:3, topic:9889”]
I suspect telling users they don’t give a sh*t about their problems
[/quote] They tend to be helpful resolving problems when asked, who did you speak to?


#7

Lets say I build a 500 server, 50Gb/sec asset and inventory system. It advertises itself to HF as a high speed ATP based repository. I make my money by charging the end users some fee for storage and usage. Now I can run around and spend a lot of time chatting up looking for customers constantly since there will be turnover, or, I can use HF’s automatic ATP system that connects individuals looking for better asset storage or auto-asset migration from their slower domain servers to this sleek system (or others also in that business). I would gladly pay a small commission for each of the transactions. So long as the cost of those transaction fees are a small part of doing profitable business I find it a net plus for me, and in turn, as it helps keep the lights on at the business that provides me with the more business, then great! Win-win. The service provided by the transaction fees has value. Moreover, (and this relates to the discussion in that link), if they provide certified authentication, identity management, and revocation services, most definitely there is value in that.


#8

I am not sure what will happen with hifi currency.

But let me take a minute to look into my glass sphere …

wow I see a a hifi marketplace almost as big as apples app store, paying billions to the shop owners on it … and an inworld economie a big as making sl’s economie a pocket change.


#9

Yes, but my point is you don’t have to go to HiFi for those services because others may be doing that as well. Some could be cheaper, or offer a service that is more suited to your personal tastes.

Let’s say HiFi decides to do server hosting for educational institutions, but you want to run a club. Let’s say there is another host that hosts domains more suited to clubs. Who will you choose?

I am probably just paranoid because of how Linden Labs did business in SL (sometimes dubious and unethical business practices), and HiFi is made up of some ex-Lindens. Who is to say they won’t just take their domain back or use the interface source code to drive your business into the ground by offering similar services as you but hard-coded into interface? They could even remove source code that your business depends on and all you can do about it is offer an alternative viewer. I have spent a lot of time (and money) creating a instant messenger for HiFi. Who is to say they won’t just post a project in worklist for hardcoded instant messaging in interface?

I realize they are a lot more limited as to what they can do in HiFi due to it’s open source cloud-like nature (e.g. they can’t shut down casinos or age-players) but the big difference is they are leaving a lot of things up to the community to do which they could just turn around and implement themselves later when they see somebody making a profit.

We have already seen instances of this happening here. Some people here have spent months working on projects only to be destroyed by a small change in source code without so much as an apology.

There is no clear roadmap for HiFi and they have implemented things only to drop them later on a whim. Sometimes it looks like they don’t even have a plan anymore.

I really think they need to hire a good project manager who can steer hifi in the right direction and a community manager who can communicate with us. Don’t get me wrong, it’s cool that Philip or Chris drop by and post on our threads but they are busy guys and don’t really have time to address all of our concerns. Let’s face it, when you fail to communicate with users they will almost always assume the worst.


#10

[quote=“Cracker_Hax, post:9, topic:9889”]
Let’s say HiFi decides to do
[/quote]…

Доверяй, но проверяй (doveryai, no proveryai).


#11

I hope I haven’t come off as too cynical. I share the vision for HiFi and I want it to be successful. If I didn’t I wouldn’t be spending all my time here.


#12

cynical is good cynical makes hifi better.that must be the point of alphas.


#13

I remind everyone of the stated definitions of Alpha and Beta as used by the HiFi brass states that Alpha = “we will break things and change stuff regularly” while Beta = “We will take great care not to break things or damage existing merchandise once we reach this stage.” (Roughly paraphrased here, I don’t have the original statements in front of me, but that was basically the gist.) Ergo, things may break now, but once we get to the Beta stage of HiFi, you won’t have to worry about your code breaking suddenly and without warning, or generally at all, and if it does break, they’ll work on fixing whatever underlying code or system calls broke it wherever possible.


#14

The question I ask is ‘why the hell does it even need a seperate currency anyway’.

I mean, the App Store and Google Play don’t use Apple Credits and GPoints do they? So why does HiFi need a seperate currency?
So much of HiFi runs of the risk of being just a ‘Second Life 2’, without learning from the myriad of issues that led to that world’s fade from prominence and effective ‘death’ in the eyes of the mainstream.
One of the most baffling things in SL is the ‘justification’ for Linden Dollars, maybe it made more sense in the Internet of 2004-8 but now it seems kinda strange?


#15

No. One currency over the whole system is better then that every domain have it’s own currency and create only more problems with payments. Also a central currency gives a better feeling for safety. As example only Linden Lab knows the payment details from the user. not the other 10.000 shop owners. Need to admit that central payment system with nnot enough choices to link payment systems too it is a terrible idea to. Secondlife is good example for that.

Not to note that the marketplace need a currency too. SO if there’s not a global currency in high fidelity you keep add payment methodes to every domain you visit and want to buy things. and you need to add payment methode to the marketplace too.

Decentralized currency. Sounds a bad idea.

Hmm, a secondlife 2 but just better.
Now that would be improvement and a step in the good direction for high fidelity !

And How nathan say it. Then windows never left beta ! :open_mouth:


#16

The primary reason for virtual currency (aka zero-value tokens) is that so long as the money stays in-system it is not a taxable event. Of course, what does ‘in-system’ mean in a distributed architecture?


#17

wow… i just canceled a multi-paragraph reply to this saying similar thing… looks out window, checks firewall and puts on tin foil hat…


#18

You can use BTC, LTC, DOGE without payment information or even authentication (cryptocurrency by nature IS authentication).

Yeah that’s the point I was making. there are already established cryptocurrencies out there that people will set up payment systems for in HiFi.

Who knows though, maybe a HiFi coin would eventually gather value against BTC eventually (especially if hifi gets a lot of exposure), but if it is heavily pre-mined I seriously doubt it would. If they want to make money on transaction fees they would have to pre-mine it 100% because cryptocoins are designed to verify transactions by miners (and transaction fees go to miners as well). If it is 100% mined then they would be setting an arbitrary cost per HiFicoin which would basically be the same thing as Linden Dollars so why bother with crypto at all if it is pre-mined?


#19

Crazy idea time. Can we use real money yes I’m talking £ Pounds starling not that mickey mouse stuff you hicks over there use. All my other “Browsers” let me purchase things using what we like to call money. You can google it it looks amazing u can buy gifts and weapons and all sorts really…super cool


#20

I thought you redcoats used Euros now? You can buy stuff like crumpets and haggis.