High Fidelity and new Second Life?


So what is the relationship between High Fidelity and the new version of Second Life under development? Is SL 2.0 going to reuse HF technology, or parts of?


Well Phil doesn’t work for Linden lab so that seems unlikely.
I love Secondlife and have spent along time there but effectively saying the problems that it has cant be fixed so their going to try to make a new one.
The cynical would say they heard about High fidelity and shat their pants.
But what do I know :smile:


Ask Philip Rosedale if you want to know the answer to whether there is any relationship between the Linden Lab new product development and HF.

My pennyworth here is that Second Life is dated technology now. A lot of work is being done on immersive technologies and this area points towards the future, while Second Life had its day and now points towards the past.

As for why Linden Lab have arrived at the decision to make a new product (which may or may not be similar to HF) - it’s anyone’s guess. If you asked them why, I would think you would get a response that will be beneficial to shareholders and investors of the company. The shareholders and investors want to make as much money as they can and that is literally the bottom line for them. Products come and go. This is the way of business.

As an aside which may or may not be related…

When a friend sold his company, he was on a 2 year non compete contract. During those 2 years he developed producs to sell when the 2 years was up. When that 2 years expired he was able to start a new business in the same field, but with an advantage because he didn’t have the legacy of supporting the old business and products that were nearing the end of their life.

The company’s clients were more loyal to my friend than to the company he used to own.

To prevent clients going with him when he launched his new company, the CEO of my friend’s ex-company announced they were also going to launch a similar product at the same time. The company CEO didn’t want to lose his existing clients to a better product and needed to act fast.


I was under the impression that LL was a partner or held some part of HF. If that’s so, then they should have access to everything HF does (and it’s open source). It would be stupid for LL to ignore the treasure just sitting there and wallow in it’s unscalable architecture. It’s critical that they produce (or appear to) a new product in light of HF. Currently the SL software is extremely limited, with tons of broken things that have been patched. They’ve reached the end of the line.

I can say that the confirmed rumors of SL2.0 have reached a lot of current SL users (it was posted on the Firestorm home page with a link on the logon screen). A few people have dumped sims and cut back on their purchases in SL because of it. In all changes, a few Chicken Littles will run around squawking at first. Time will tell if it gains traction and becomes widespread. Those who sell their own created mesh will be in the best position for whatever change comes. Scripters will have to learn Javascript or whatever language SL2.0 will support, sculpty makers will be out of a job, texture people will be ok. Anyone used to working in prims will be SOL. Land barons, the main income of LL, will scream bloody murder. I’m gonna make popcorn and watch.

Will SL2.0 converge with HF or diverge? Right now they say it will be closed source, LL viewer only. I think the old Chinese curse/blessing applies: May you live in interesting times.


Sitting on the sideline with @Merri eating popcorn & watching



I am very very vested in SL right now, yet I would gladly welcome a “redo” and join that. Sure I can’t bring my house over, but my house is a prefab that I bought for about 25 cents. I think people who work in 3rd party software will easily bring there items into ANY world accepting mesh, SL2 and HF alike.

I’m glad we’ve started a place to talk about potential dynamics between the two. Competition or synergy? I think we’ll see a bit of both!


High Fidelity is the future 3d web. Second Life is now old, it does not support a lot of things. And of course SL 2.0 will have some technologies that High Fidelity came ahead.
If the high Fidelity technology could add to Second Life Community today, for SL 2.0, would be fabulous!


Also, today’s Linden Lab is a service operator rather than a lean, mean and creative technology company able to attract and motivate top talent and create breakthroughs. I think the best they could do is to outsource R&D to High Fidelity and focus on deployment.


Looks into his glass sphere and sees a bright future for the virtual worlds … just the name it is gonna get is a bit clouded


As someone making a living through SL, the current rumor mill is a bit scary. But, as long as SL is making LL money it’s not going anywhere. But, I guess we’ll see! Personally, I’m rooting for Philip. There would be no SL without him. If someone is going to create a successful new gen virtual world my money is on him not ole’ Eddie over there. :stuck_out_tongue:


The rumors ARE scary. I’m half afraid to open up my groups these last few days as someone else tells their tale of dumping their sim and trying Opensim. Since I deal mostly in prim and sculpt based builds, I’m accellerating my move to mesh and seeing what I can salvage of my building tools in SL. My SL hobby has made me a nice little nest egg and I’m going to use it to have a bit of fun - like a trip to the UK next year.

As for LL being a creative technology company, that ship sailed a long time ago. Historians can probably supply more details, but there were a series of insane purges of creative talent that went through LL in waves, decimating their ranks of anyone with vision. They purged talent that worked on The Matrix Reloaded graphics (who also invented sculpts), fired beloved Lindens who cared and worked with residents and wanted sincerely to help them. Then LL widened the moat (shut off access to the JIRA), added alligators and rolled down the castle door and hunkered down in their cubicles like good little code monkeys. There’s a great deal of resentment about all of this, and so many people have long memories. Philip is not responsible directly for any of this, and I honestly believe he’s the genius that will save the idea of a workable virtual world.

I honestly think that they do not have the current talent at LL to do a total rewrite. Time will tell. People are already building boats.


The new LL virtual world will be closed-source according to comments by Mr. Altberg, so that seems to imply that whatever new system they will be building will be quite unrelated to High Fidelity. Mr. Altberg also said that an approach to lowering land fees would be to shift costs to increased merchant transaction fees - so selling real estate still seems to be a planned source of revenue for LL on this new platform.


I cannot say wich one is going to use most, its just where the biggest flow of friends going to. and wich software is most friendly for bad eyes :stuck_out_tongue: and many people are very worried about ther elose of inventory.


Shift cost to increased merchant fees? Currently the commissions they charge on marketplace transactions serve only to stabilize the Linden to dollar ratio by removing Lindens from the stream of trade. In order to make up the cost of what people are paying for sims, I don’t see how it can work. Sims pay in dollars. Fees are Lindens, which means to make cash they’ll have to put those Lindens back into the market and take dollars out. Say goodbye to a stable Linden.

As for closed source, good luck to them.


Yeah, that’s another thing. It’s closed source, yet it’s supposed to be geared towards creators? HA! I promise, no seasoned creator wants anything to do with the official viewer. I use Firestorm as does EVERY other creator I know.

I think what bugs me the most about all of this is that the new CEO has only been there for a few months and already he’s planning to overhaul sl? He’s not passionate about virtual worlds, he barely knows SL yet and already he wants to make a new one.

My sales have been slow this week and I just pray that they pick back up and that it’s not because people are leaving SL due to this. I make full perm mesh clothing, so my customer base are the designers in SL. If the designers think SL is doomed why would they pay 5 bucks for a new full perm piece of clothing for their store?.. They won’t.


I guess that is a question for Phil to answer himself! I heard LL had a fair amount of shares in HF. Also since HF is all open sourrce now, nothing can prevent LL folks from alpha testing themselves and use all they learn for sl2. My greatest concern: It seems the future is VR! If FB decides to create a VR world were would THAT put HF or SL??? Competition is good in away! It finally makes things move!
But instead of each competing in the race to build their own best VR world we should all develop the internet of tomorrow… Which will be 3d!
I am not a programmer, but if I was, rather the develop my own VR , I would develop a way that ALL worlds can be connected in the future!!!
Lets start now!!!


High Fidelity R&D —> if this open source initiative is picked up by some well-known Universities that could speed up a lot of things
And it will attract the more experienced dev’s who will get faster interested in this

Then the speed of development could be accelerated in a way that commercial companies (LL) never can achieve
Also it will boost the community

Blender is a good example

Although the # of core dev’s seems not that big --> it has a very active and supportive community
They influence each other also with support / tutorials / very active fora

It will be interesting to see in which way HiFi will be moving
Yes: it’s open source and yes it’s also commercial business which has to survive / flourish

One of my concern’s about HiFi: staying as some niche product and not getting enough traction
SL2: more details needed - their architecture etc … interesting to experience all these stuff for sure :slight_smile:


Thats very good news, because HiFy can use a few developers more. compared to SL2 that get 40+ more developers. The weak point keeps inventory, and thats what people can keep in SL(2) i read it over and over, not something to ignore.


Merri and others already pictured LL pretty well, but let me add my $0.02.
Post-Philip LL is the worst possible company that I’ve ever ran into. It was years ago that I started to picture them with just bloody stumps instead of feet, because they just keep shooting themselves in the feet, which weren’t even there anymore. After all this painful history, they can’t do anything good anymore in my eyes. I turned my back on them completely. It’s not just hate, I just honestly believe they ARE not capable to create or do anything that would be a benefit to users. LLs management has no idea what a virtual world is about and what it means to people. They never listen to anyone, not their user, not to open source coders, and as far as I can tell, also not to their employees. Wrong decision, after wrong decision, after wrong decision. shiver

PS The right music that goes with this post is https://play.spotify.com/album/2Yi9SbYqgimZRr3lUzmUwE (one click headshot)