High Fidelity Marketplace Fee Structure


#1

Someone over on the Sansar Discord channel pointed me to this document:

https://highfidelity.com/commerce/fee-structure

I am curious and I have a few questions (no, I am not really a creator and I do not plan to put items up for sale in the HiFi Marketplace, I’m just a curious blogger).

“Reviewing and Certifying digital assets under the PoP license will have a fixed fee of 1,000 HFC.”

What is PoP? Proof of Provenance? Something else? You don’t explain the acronym on your page. (Forgive my ignorance.)

And, if 100 HFC = US$1.00, then you’re charging ten dollars per item as a Marketplace listing fee? Really?

That, plus 10% of the sales amount as a sales fee?

As the person said who originally posted this link to the Sansar Discord channel said: “They just finally unveiled their in-world VR shopping system…all my excitement for it just evaporated after reading this page”.


#2

For the record, that person Ryan is referencing is me. I have nothing to hide, you guys should know by now I speak my mind when I feel it’s deserved. I’ve even made fun of Sansar’s ugly male avatars (they look way too much like Kevin Spacey… I’m sorry LL) on its official Discord where their CEO could easily read it. I am a fan of VR and virtual worlds, not a corporate cheerleader. If I see any of these companies dropping the ball, I’m going to say so. Charging $10 just to certify one item is dropping the ball.

I still plan to sell on the HF Marketplace. High Fidelity is still a platform I want to contribute to. But wow, this pricing model is going to make that much harder. (I really hope I just horribly misread the page and that 1000HFC fee is not charged per-item. Please clarify this, High Fidelity.) I applied for a HFC grant, and if I get one, I will be able to list around 10 items for free (and believe me, I really do appreciate that). But after that, I won’t be listing anything until I can afford to.

This going to force me to pick only very specific items that are guaranteed sellers. Niche items or items that only cater to a smaller audience won’t sell much and therefore pose too much of a risk to bother with. I suppose that’s the intention here? I realize $10 is not a lot in the grand scheme of things (especially, I’m sure, to the staff of a company based in one of the most expensive parts of the U.S.) but when you have to pay it for every single item, it’s going to add up. I am not rich. I do 3D art as a hobby. The only reason I even have a VR headset now and a VR-ready laptop to go with it is because of two Sansar contests - I would have never afforded either otherwise…

This pricing model creates the perception that High Fidelity only wants big-time sellers with high volume of sales. Lesser-known artists who still have something unique to offer aren’t really wanted here. The fact that you have to pay that fee even for items you don’t want to sell but simply want to certify - that’s absurd. Is this how freebies going to be handled?

More worrisome to me is that the page mentions that you have to pay the fee even for re-listing. Does that mean if you want to release an updated version of your item, you’ll have to pay $10 again? Does that sound like a democratic and “free VR metaverse” to you? It doesn’t to me. This is capitalism gone wild. I get High Fidelity needs to make money and be profitable but I think this is the wrong way to do it. At least make that fee lower! $5 and less would be far more reasonable. Even better, use Judas’s idea and waive the fee altogether for first-time sellers. Even just letting us have 1 freely certified item would be better than… this. One item could theoretically sell enough in time to pay for other PoP licenses.


#3

As sansar users say it’s beta not finished grins . obviously unlike sansar where everything is free and the Linden lab t&c don’t claim ownership of everyone’s work hifi would like to run a business .I’m not sure where ever is getting this idea that HIFIs market was free from.
Obviously Linden lab have never and will never tax uploads or sales or charge for land and all builders keep what they kill

This is just one of those stirring attempts
Now unlike sansar you don’t have to use the marketplace or upload to Linden lab
To have your work in world
Can sansar say the same?


#4

People can’t wholesale rip my entire world’s models in Sansar. They can in High Fidelity, right from within its own interface, without any external tools. Simple copy and paste from the log. But at least now, we know that’s by design. It creates incentive for us to pay the $10 protection fee. Like a VR mafia.


#5

People can’t wholesale rip my entire world’s models in Sansar.Yet
Lol @ vr mafia hosting your assets for ever and proving their province seems a good deal
Prevention of virtual theft is massively complex and usually circumvented.i like HIFIs concept that it’s better to focus on proof of ownership

Let us not forget that coping assets without permission is actually crime


#6

If models can somehow have an audit trail (using something like blockchain) provenance can be determined. A rip off model, will be the same as the original even if this proof is stripped off. If the original’s proof of origin predates the copy, job done. Just an idea here.


#7

HF is just once again a victim of the ‘dirty tricks brigade’. The weapons of choice are lies, damned lies and (fake) statistics. Rise above or drop to their level.


#8

Thats exactly what the marketplace and blockchain is for.U can see if an item was legitimatly purchased.if it dosent show its credentials then its not been purchased from the market.That isnt to say its stolen.Most of my work isnt on the market. Its more about buyer protection and knowing you are getting somthing from a trustworthy location.
Im not overly concerned what sansar users think , its a very different product aimed squarley at the secondlife users.
i said from the start if hifis goal was to be secondlife then theres little point to it.


#9

We’re not a mafia… we’re family. :wink: innit-that right Uncle Enzo?


#10

Under the Marketplace I have a new item, this has a Certificate PoP.
Hifi do you not charge for a PoP Certificate ?-) right now

Review fee:
Reviewing and Certifying digital assets under the PoP license will have a fixed fee of 1,000 HFC.

Also I see the Creative Commons License without a Layer
and the Proof of Provenance License under the item is this normal,
while I have think it s just one of then/those ?


#11

Hi @Sbin, they don’t charge you at moment :slight_smile:

In the future, we will be including a fee to post your item for sale on the Marketplace. Check out our fee structure here. Currently, there is no fee to post your item to the Marketplace.


#12

I assume you’re referring to me here. Let me know where it is that I lied. I simply linked to that page on High Fidelity’s own website, where it says the fee is a fixed “1,000” HFC. According to a post from Phil here on the forum about the exchange rate, that will translate to around $10.

There really, truly is a defense force for everything. :laughing: Well, I’m glad to find out sooner than later that this platform isn’t for people with low incomes, disabled people, etc. Too bad…


#13

Hi @Theanine, right now, you know, they don’t take money for proofing your objects in the marketplace. So why you don’t take the chance and use it?

On the other side. Even hifi is not smooth on all ends, it give far more freedom and space for creativity as other platforms. And - I am sorry you made this experience - I never figured out a problem for disabled people.


#14

Nope definitely NOT referring to you about lies (if you are referring to my post here). I am referring to corporate spin, certainly NOT you. (Unless you are a marketing person in disguise). It’s a quote from Mark Twain, who attributed it to the British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli: “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.”

  • These days it’s used when referring to marketing people.

:slight_smile:


#15

Are you saying these people should be treated differently especially in vr?


#16


Thank you for the info, this really needs to be added to the “Fee Structure” page.

Regardless, I’m talking about the longterm direction of the platform. The free proofing is only temporary. What about people who will join High Fidelity in the distant future? They will be left out.

If I was a marketer, why would I even be talking about any of this? Marketers make good money I imagine. $10 would be nothing at that point, why would I even care??

You’re backtracking here, but it’s obvious who you were referring to when you quoted Ryan’s post (who himself was referring to me.) Really, Deb, this kind of discourse is absolutely childish. Accusing someone of being a liar without even knowing a thing about them, all because they merely disagreed with a corporate business decision? I’d like to believe the people here are above this nonsense. Good to know that dissent is not allowed here, otherwise you’re automatically labeled a paid troll. At least Skimi was substantive, respectful, and informative. Posts like “Poor High Fidelity, they’re a victim! Someone disagreed with them, it’s so tragic!” adds absolutely nothing of substance to the discussion.

No, no clue why you interpreted it that way. I’m saying that I’m glad I found out NOW rather than later that this platform is going to be too cost-prohibitive for me as a low-income, disabled person, because now that I know, I’ll be careful not to waste further time investing into it. I was really excited about all the new VR shopping, blockchain features, etc. Really revolutionary stuff I thought, and now I’m saddened that I and others in my situation won’t get to be a part of it.


#17

#18

What do you take private beta to mean?
Do you think it means this is it’s final finished form
Or do you think it could possibly be in development and be asking users for feedback rather than dramatic rage quits
Pre this discussion I suggested this

U even liked it
In my experience hifi listen to us
They don’t always agree have the discussion with them


#19

1000 HFC for something that is going to be sold 200 HFC… not too bad.
but for something sold 10 HFC… not sure.

I think it’s dictating a range of price… instead to have the fees according the sell price.

I remember 12 years ago try something for sell on SL… I would have certainly not paid 10$ just to try something that I wasn’t really believe that it could work.


#20

Maybe it should be linked to model size
As currently a 1 meg model costs the same as a 50 gig one to store