How is HiFi going to handle / Solve router loopback problems


#1

I know from the OpenSimulator project that Router loopback is a big issue,
because many routers dont support loopback. And thats not going to get better.
How is HiFi going to handle this problem with router loopback problems ?
Its something you can betetr think about in early state then need to
figure something out much later. Also if people dont need to worry
about loopback problems, HiFi is more userfriendly to run.


#2

Loopback is only an issue if you are trying to run a viewer on the same machine as the server.
I doubt that this will be of any concern here because most people wont be developing their own servers, and those that do will undoubtedly have a separate developer machine which they will run the server on.
High Fidelity is a totally different beast to Opensimulator.
In any case I dont think it would be High Fidelity’s problem to overcome, if your hardware is not up to the task then therein lies the problem.

Adrian


#3

Router-level loopback is about same LAN, not (just) same machine where the externally visible host/port combination is not accessible internally. IIRC, it is non-trivial to do it correctly and many router manufactures choose not to do so for various reasons.

NOT having a solution is, I think, somewhat of a disincentive for users to host HiFi services… given that the system architecture seems designed to take advantage of massive scalability, I’d think it would be in scope. For the same reason, avoiding the DynDNS issues would also be good, though maybe less critical. Anyway, it seems to me to be a solvable problem: e.g. if the (external) name resolver points back to your own external IP address, you could fall back to some LAN discovery mechanism, maybe just UPNP or something.


#4

upnp is not the solution.
What if the router or user have it disabled.
In fact i have it disabled in the router because its security risk and not needed to have enabled. If we take skype as example sofar my knowledge go, the use a 3e computer to avoid the router loopback or nat problems. and in this case the hifi server could solve this problem to ?


#5

Hmm… well, I guess my point is that it is reasonable to have some requirements for hosting a service - I would just find software and LAN configuration requirements more palatable than requiring far from ubiquitous router features. Personally, I wouldn’t buy a router without loopback, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some ISPs provided non-loopback-capable routers.

The real trick is to avoid having the HiFi servers having to be in the loop - I’m not convinced that it would be worth supporting service hosting on user machines at all if they had to go through a centralized router - seems like it rather breaks the distributed architecture.

Anyway. my suggestion for UPNP was simply to provide a standard lan discovery mechanism, not to provide the services to the outside - I mean, It is, as you say, an enormous security risk to have it enabled on your router, but most of us probably have UPNP running on at least one or two devices on our LANs. In any case, either active or passive LAN UDP service discovery would totally avoid the router loopback problem without requiring HiFi servers in the loop. Maybe you want a periodic authentication with HiFi to make sure nobody is staging a man-in-the-middle attack on your LAN, but otherwise avoiding central services as much as possible helps make everything fast and scalable.