Introducing Groups


#1

In a push to give you more security options, today we’re releasing groups & lists!

To start with, groups & lists will be pretty self-contained. You will be able to buy a group or list on highfidelity.com, invite others to it, and edit others’ permissions within the group or list. In the very near future, we’ll be adding group and list integration to the Domain Server, letting you - as a domain operator - exert fine-grained control over who you allow on your domain, and what you allow them to do. We’ve structured these in such a way that you will be able to use them like MMORPG guilds, or like white/blacklists. For now, though, I’ll walk through how to setup a basic group, either as a Group or as a List.


Both start the same - they can be purchased here with your metaverse account. Once purchased, you’ll need to select how to use it - as a Group or a List. There are two main differences for now:

  • Groups’ members will join by invitation.
    • Groups’ members will have the option to reject an invitation, and not be a part of the group.
    • Groups’ members may also leave the group at any time.
    • A Group is visible to anyone who is invited, so you will know if you are a member or not.
  • Lists’ members will be added, without notice.
    • Lists’ members will be added to the group by administrators of the group. They may not reject their addition to the group.
    • A List is only visible to those members who have permissions within it.

These differences are meant to allow a List to be used as a white/blacklist, without alerting those within the list to their membership.
For now, your selection will be permanent. If you buy and make a Group, you will not be able to convert it to a List later (and vice versa).


Once you’ve made your selection, you can start adding members! On the Group (or List) screen, you will be able to see if a member has accepted your invitation, and you will be able to assign ranks to members to give them different permissions within the groups. These permissions (and the abilities they grant) are:

  • Edit Group: edit group/list description and image.
  • Edit Rank: add/remove/reorder ranks, and edit their permissions. Users will only be able to edit those ranks below their own.
  • List Ranks: view all ranks.
  • List Permissions: view all ranks and their permissions.
  • Edit Member: add/remove users to the group/list, and edit their ranks. Users will only be able to assign ranks below their own.
  • List Members: view all members.
  • Query Member: ask if a specific user is a member of a group, and his/her rank (this will be necessary for the Domain Server to utilize groups, when that feature is released).

Certain permissions depend on others, and will be automatically added. For example, if you give a rank Query Member, List Ranks will be added as well.


If anything is still confusing, please let us know! See you in the metaverse!

zach a.k.a. zzmp


A Brief Q&A

  • How do you create a group or list?
    Visit https://www.highfidelity.com/user/groups/new to purchase a group or list.

  • What is the difference between a group and a list?
    Although they are both purchased in the same way, a group is more appropriate for a “guild” or “club”. Every member will know that they are a part of the group. A list is more appropriate for a white/blacklist. Only those members with permissions will know that they are in the list, so blacklisted members can be left in the dark.

  • Can I share a group or list?
    You can share a group or list by adding the user you’d like to share with as a member. If they want to use it for their domain security, you’ll need to give them Query Member permission, at the very least.

  • How do ranks work?
    Each member of the group or list must be assigned a rank. This dictates what that user is able to see or edit within the group, as follows:

    • Edit Group: edit group/list description and image.
    • Edit Rank: add/remove/reorder ranks, and edit their permissions. Users will only be able to edit those ranks below their own.
    • List Ranks: view all ranks.
    • List Permissions: view all ranks and their permissions.
    • Edit Member: add/remove users to the group/list, and edit their ranks. Users will only be able to assign ranks below their own.
    • List Members: view all members.
    • Query Member: ask if a specific user is a member of a group, and his/her rank (this will be necessary for the Domain Server to utilize groups, when that feature is released).
  • How do I add my groups or lists to my domain?
    When released, you will be able to add (or remove) permissions to a group/list, by rank, on the Domain Settings page, reachable by right-clicking the High Fidelity icon in your system tray.

  • How can I tell if someone has accepted my group invitation?
    If your group is a Group, you will need List Members permission, and an hourglass will appear in the Accepted column of the group’s page until they have accepted, at which point it will become a checkmark.
    If it is a List, members are added without an invitation.

  • Can I delete a group/list if I don’t want it anymore? Can I get my money back?
    Right now, groups and lists cannot be deleted once purchased. If you need help, contact us at support@highfidelity.com.

  • Can I give a group/list to someone else?
    Right now, groups and lists cannot be transferred. If you need help, contact us at support@highfidelity.com.

  • What happens to my group/list if it expires and I don’t renew?
    Once your group/list expires, the name will be open for anyone to renew. You may renew your group/list up to thirty days before it’s expiration.


#2

Seriously?! Wow, did I step into Sansar?

[edit]
$5USD per group? So, we pay to test these things too? Do you think perhaps it is a tad premature to charge for something we have no idea if it works correctly, if at all?


#3

Now im curious what will it cost. i think that’s nowhere to see.


#4

$5USD per group. :scream:


#5

I guess / year. or it’s month ?


#6

I went to the group setup link. It wants $5 per group per year.


#7

Note - you’re basically purchasing exclusive right to control the group by a global name you are buying. The name is what you’re buying.


#8

Good point - we’ll happily give anyone registered before today a free coupon for a year of group membership. Email contact@highfidelity.io to request one, we’ll get it to you.


#9

[EDITED to remove kneejerk cynicism]

Oh no another cost.

We have to pay for groups but are they ready yet.
[/quote][quote=“zzmp, post:1, topic:11259”]
In the very near future, we’ll be adding group and list integration to the Domain Server,
[/quote] So there is not even any back end to this yet but we’re still being charged once or twice more before the feature is even ready.

There is a a long description of “a list” with 2 different names. Calling something a group doesnt change the fact it is still just an empty list.

“Permissions” seems to be nothing more than the graded abilities to see who is on the list, and who can edit the list.
But what is the list? Nobody provides a list of anything, we buy a blank list for us to fill out. What about real permissions?

I dont this giving any security whatsoever? Apart from the blacklist that we have asked for for 2 years and yet has seemed to be so impossible to provide, so what seems to be done is to create the much needed blacklist and charging for it. I dont think that will go over well.
So where are the new security options please.
I have to provide my own list, I would gladly pay per year to get an updated blacklist of griefers but the list is blank.

Does this “groups” functionality allow for any form of contact? as in messaging, as in group IMs and such essential group functions?
How does one get an “Invitation” to join a group? Does a user get any kind of notification that he/she has been accepted?

$5 is not much when its loaded with value but for now it doesnt seem to fit, please dont lose touch with your user base.

We are being charged for features on domains that we already pay for, I wouldnt think there would be much money to be made yet but there is the probability of upsetting lots of users.

My feelings are we are being charged us for the black list, maybe it should be part of what we already pay for in the domain name.

Let us start selling stuff. Finish the marketplace and make an economy, We’re all waiting for that


#10

I am angry because I want Hifi to succeed, Hifi stands the best chance of being the premier VR destination if users are allowed the abilities to do amazing things.
I want Hifi to make money, lots of money, but there’s no money in wringing out the few dedicated domain owners that exist, I know you need to place these systems before the crowds come, that makes sense.
I know SL charges 1000L for a group, that’s like $4 or something. But SL groups can do amazing things.
I know special features can cost money. But is this a special feature or part of basic functionality?
I hope you can see I am not stupid, I know why you need to do these things, I just question the timing. This worries me.

Today there are as many regular users that you can count on 2 hands, this includes the meetups which have gone from 30 to about 10. These dedicated pioneers are the ones enabling Hifi to be fully tested, These dedicated users should not be punished by means of extra costs to keep their domains up to standard, when after all virtually no visitors come, there is no way of us charging-on, there is nobody to charge on to and no way of charging.

Do we need 2 lists (one for groups and one for blacklist) for each domain?
Can I use the same name for the 2 lists?
Can I use my blacklist for all my domains?
Can my group be enabled on several domains?
If not then 1 free name isn’t enough, I need 10.

We are testing HIFI for you, we are not making any money, nobody is running any business here yet. it costs me a small fortune to run servers for domains, content, outboard services, and place names etc.
Unless you open up some avenues for us to be able to charge for usage of domains we are screwed, doing it for love and paying for the privilege. Even then it will be 1 - 2 years before anybody sees any real numbers.

If you continue grind away at the only users you have, then you are killing your own golden goose.

I am angry because I am worried.
I hope I didnt offend anyone.


#11

I welcome the functionality and further services built upon them adding value to such purchases.
I understand the sentiment expressed here myself, I don’t think you need to be too apologetic Adrian, you make cogent points.
Phillip’s gesture of a free coupon is most welcome.
It’s true the community is not large, and those who are regular users show much commitment without the immediate prospect of any ecosystem to adequately finance such interest. As such, charging for services in general now seems a mostly counter-productive approach. I guess it’s more effective to roll the system out and allow people to start the registration process with these things, the alternative would be staging a release that will be data wiped. To me that seems preferable, but there’s the associated cost I guess.


#12

I also agree with what several are saying here: you’re wanting to charge us extra for something that should be basic-functionality stuff. Groups,I’d think we should only be charged extra if its some kind of really super advanced functionality KIND of groups, not merely the ability to decide who gets to access our Domain and the like. And absolutely blacklists and whitelists should never, ever be something you charge extra for.


#13

This is unexpected suprise. And not expected to think about that right now

Why 2 sepererate things ? to get more income ?
I expected both in one. Can you use groups for black and white listing ?
Going to skip this question for now, until i figured out what to choice. (and a good test to)

Still like to know why it’s split in 2 options and not combined both.
And black / white listing belong default in the sandbox code and web interface. and then when you choice groups you can ban people from there to. so managers have some powers when there’s event.


#14

The first time after i got a group invite by e-mail and i clicked accept. it did take very long before the login screen appeared. Second try worked better.


#15

Well, I think there will be private lists too. You pay for the exclusive rights for the name of the group/list, not for the list itself.
So if you want to create a unnamed, private blacklist, you are free to do so for free. But if for example I want to create a ‘Konstantin’s List of Bad Boys’ list and sell if to domain owners to use it on their domains, I’d have to pay for it.

But I really love the idea of receiving some free stuff :stuck_out_tongue: With some applications they gift you some goodies for being the first one to adopt/help with tests. For example the virtual world Second Life offered Lifetime Accounts for early adopters, where they don’t have to pay land fees and receive stipends. Why not offer a lifetime domain and a lifetime group for all Alphas/Betas. Like, whenever a function is introduced, all accounts created before that date receive one lifetime coupon for free. Wouldn’t hurt much economy wise as we’re only a very small number of users compared with the expected userbase. Plus, more people would use the functions and bugs could be found earlier.

Regards,
Konstantin


#16

I think i see a good use for lists, would be nice if high fidelity can confirm if the like todo something like that.

If i choice for a list, it would be nice if i can link that list to zone(s) and create some parcel idea. It need more things, but it would be a good first step.

Going to choice possible for list.


#17

I have the placename “Steam” for my adult gentlemans club, so I tried to get a group for it and it was refunded? Wtf! I can have the placename but not the group?

** edit ** After complaining, I was able to keep my group and they let me keep the refund too. How nice of them :slight_smile:


#18

They did give out free domains for early adopters. I think the coupon was only good for one month though.


#19

Yes, it was a free domain for one year. While HiFi was pretty much in Alpha and there wasn’t much use or value to the domains.


#20

Even less value now without a domain directory. I agree those initial free domains should have been free forever (along with a free group to go along with them). Some of us have been here for years already, and some of us have tons of domains we have been paying for even when they were completely worthless this whole time (but I guess that’s the price we had to pay to get them first :smiley: ).