Live music and audio problems


#1

Yes we have low latency audio, but to play music with other people over hifi its not low enough( if kevins singing and im playing along with him it sounds all out of time to you". To quote Scotty "Ya kannie change the laws of physics"
In second life people get around this problem chaining the audio , This isn’t a perfect solution as each person can only hear the people above them in the chain and the person at the top usually the singer can only hear himself.this is then played back in world using shoutcast
To do this people tend to use a piece of hideously overpriced software called Sam broadcaster.
I think the option to be able to route internal sound to do the same thing in HiFi would make it a really powerful piece of kit
capitalizing on the high native sound quality. There are ninjam, nicecast, shoutcast, etc third party software but these all need a real nerd mentality to use.A integrated solution that can exploit the great sound we have in Hifi would drive the entire project forward
People could use this tek in a few useful ways. at a basic level
I can play my music itunes or whatever into hifi and be a dj
I can use the same tek to do presentations
Musicians not in the same room can play to 10000 people , which was as I recall part of the dream.
to use another star trek quote
Make it so


#2

Yes latency currently is not low enough now, but this is early stages, I feel we should wait for the inevitable improvements in latency before we concede defeat and resort to “chaining” the live performance which is so far from a perfect solution so as to (using your own words) admit the system doesnt work.
Chaining music is only considered live in so much as the musicians are still alive at the time of recording, there is no feel between musicians, the performance is live but the result is effectively not live at all, Savage Garden recorded an entire album while one of them was in Australia and one was in Europe for a year, the first guy laid a track and posted it to the second guy who laid another track and sent it back, each player played live of course but the result was studio, because the was no interplay between musicians, a critical part of live 'feel". The only difference there is the latency is days not milliseconds.

This world is called High Fidelity, in most peoples minds this means true sounding music, the platform was built with low latency in mind, but its not ready yet, just like lots of other parts, all work in progress.
I know we all want it now, but its just not ready, so dont give up and install a second rate solution please.
Lets all just wait for the wizards at hifidev to do their magic and ultimately render the acceptable latency.

“Course laid in, Captain”


#3

The laws of physics thing is well the speed of light.Phil talks about 100ms being achievable. And yes for a voice call that’s amazing. I have some experience home recording music and found when recording and monitoring audio a latency of not much more than 10ms will throw you out of time and out of tune.To fix the problem you have to either have all your musicians all really close to the audio server, reduce the size of the planet or increase the speed of light. Or do the chaining thing. And whilst I’m sure Phil is capable of the light speed and planet size thing, he wouldn’t want to be considered a show off so I would hope may be persuaded to look at the third option .


#4

When you throw that much logic into the mix its hard to argue.
I now realize the whole “speed of light” thing wasnt just symbolic, current technology using optics we are actually capped at the speed of light. The earth is about 24k miles around the equator so say 12k between 2 most remote points,
at 186,000 miles a second it will take 67ms just to travel the distance not counting circuitry or any other points of lag.

It is true and Philip has mentioned latency of anything over about 20ms being beyond reasonable limits, and we are quite a way from achieving this, so I guess it depends on the projected release date vs speed of dev (and improvements in global net speeds) which could easily see us ready to release before we have achieved the desired speeds, in which case sadly we will need another solution.

So maybe you are right in suggesting we implement some supplemental method of easily jamming from remote digs.
But we dont want to suggest “near live level latency” is not achievable, it just may take some time., and the initial rollout may enable jamming with people in your own country for a bit.


#5

What I’m suggesting I think is pretty much a mixing desk patch bay kinda thing. But it must be simple to use, none of that port forwarding ip address shit


#6

Make it so say we all.


#7

@judas I agree. It is critical that something like this be integrated into the interface or assignment manager.