Mandate for an Avatar


Mandate for an avatar

The biped humanoid avatar should have only 1 rig with set
bone names.

This rig should be-able to load manifold meshes, so we can
make our own.

It should come with a standard mesh made from lovely quads
with amazing edge flow so it can animate brilliantly.

10 must have 10 fingers and 10 toes. So people can have open
toe shoes

It should have a set of sliders to adjust shape keys
blendshapes or what have you. So the faces will Faceshift and the body can be
made fat thin tall short like second life has. People love to customise their
appearance and clothes (the Autodesk character genitor is clever but they all
come out looking like shit.

Again like sl it should allow users to re texture the avatar
to make skins.

It should have unlike second life a volumetric deformer so
when people make clothes to fit it. They will just fit with no effort. Perhaps a
slider to make a shirt baggier if u don’t want it skin tight.

Multiple Rigged meshes must be attachable to any chosen

Please comment I want to know what we need and want avatars
to become in hf these are my first thoughts.


Taking from both Snow Crash and Alice in Wonderland, avatars may not be more than 1-mile high.

Note, SL now uses “fitted mesh” to make clothes change shape with the body sliders.


Sl does have fitted mesh but it doesn’t work in a predictable way, its a real afterthought bolt on rigged to the collision volumes.
I think Hf should be as flexible as possible but creating things like animations when everyone has a different set of bones would be tricky.

I was thinking about secondlife everyone there is buying slink feet. Siddean made feet to fit the avatar that could be made to match assorted skins. Don’t get me wrong shes amazingly talented and made an enormously creative solution to a problem. But for my money fastening feet over other feet is basically polishing a turd.
But changing the avatar in secondlife to a new one would break so much people have spent alotta money on. would at this stage be a showstopper. It was designed to suit technology 10 years ago.its a miracle how far its been pushed.

Playing dress up is one of the main things people do in virtual worlds, would be foolish to tackle avatas with any half measures
And i’m so sold on Faceshift it brings the people to life everyone has to be able to experience it. I don’t want to use an avatar that cant smile.


I am not a builder but I am a creator and a long-term resident of sl.

Customisation and looking good as a means of self expression are really important to me - this is what takes sl beyond being another techie playground into something that is used and enjoyed by many.

  • But, as a platform, sl is also fundamentally hampered by being based on 10 yr old (or more) technology. So I agree with all the points Judas makes - we need to find ways to start afresh and think about what is possible now, what could we achieve based on what is possible today (or nearly possible)… how can we strip out the complexity and yet retain the creativity, individuality and self expression?

For example, why not start with a system which automatically gave light and shadow to everything so builders dont have to bake those into their designs? Find a way to allow people to change and customise their appearance in a way that didnt require them to sort through pages and pages of randomly named inventory items - I want to be able to do the equivalent of opening the door of my wardrobe and visually scanning what I want to wear today, clothes that fit me without having to adjust my avatar size, putting on make up for a night out without adding layer upon layer upon layer…- i could go on, but I think you get the gist…

Let’s keep it simple but lets be bold and start with a vision of how we can be brighter, bolder and better than anything thats been done before :smile:


I do like a Test Driven approach, but those tests are best viewed like this IMHO

To paraphrase, A unit test tell you if you coded the thing right, but not if you coded the right thing.

Use cases that include discovering how easy various steps are for a wide range of technical and non-technical people.

As was already described, making your foot invisible then attaching a whole new shoe/foot combo seems rather weird and yet it has become standard practice in SL.


Oh yes, we do love to pimp out our avatars! :smiley:

One of the Lindens, can’t remember who, said something that struck me as very true. When residents say they need or want something, they are not wrong. However, they may not know the best way to make that happen. I trust that the developers here know how much we love to dress up and make our avatars unique.


I know the developers know what their doing but to quote the song" you got to have a dream if you don’t have a dream how you gonna have a dream come true". I think if all the alphas say I want this can you do that , I had this dream where I could shoot Marshmellow unicorns from my eyes . maybe some of them they hadn’t thought of and will think actually that’s not a bad idea and put in there.
and as i think of it I need marshmallow unicorns ¬.¬ and I need them now.
I was chatting about ideas with smokey earlier. talking about hair. Hf did the hairdressing video talking about hair styles. In sl were all kinda use to prim hair. but most 3d progs can do proper hair simulation that blows in the wind.
we talked about things like, imagine it u had hair that you could grow to length, then imagine if you could cut it using the razor hydra.
Then u maybe had a control that went from straight to curly, and one for how springy the hair is.
then we thought what if hf had weather. imagine it starts raining and how that would mess up your hair
your lovely do would go all limp and unmanageable lol
and weather then hf could have seasons weather and flowers and trees that change accordingly. rivers that fill and flood with rain and snow like in the uk
i don’t know if any of this is in the road map or even possible, I’m not a coder. but i do know that if no one thinks of it then no one will make it.


I only like games where I can have a pretty avatar, as I am vain. This is important to me and I am sure to others.


I’m no expert, so some (all?) of these might be poorly defined, but:

  • facial expressions should be extensible. Yes, I’m all for mapping RL facial expressions to the avatar, but the control points certainly need to support non-standard faces and allow manual adjustments. facial animation bones?
  • better skeleton than SL - more bones for humans so that mocap can be more realistic. At least finger bones for hand movements (ASL support, anyone?) and toes (at least as a group) separate from foot bed, but most of the non-SL mocap systems seem to model with more complex hip and shoulder systems than SL does.
  • take avatar soft-body simulation into account from the very beginning or assert that it will never be done. One can spend all day arguing the pros and cons associated with modeling body part inertia, but I don’t see any reason to do it poorly. I presume this means bones rigged properly to the rest of the skeleton and decently weighted mesh.
  • aliasing and grouping of sets of parts. while it is nice to be able to assemble a complete look piece by piece, I’d like to be able to say “wear body A, put on my X shoes, Y pants, and Z shirt” where A is some combination of skeleton, weighted mesh, shape modifiers and parameters, hair, etc. SL outfits are a step in the right direction, but fall far short of the ease of use you see anywhere else (including real life) in that they combine poorly, are annoying to create and manage as partial outfits, and are difficult to organize once you have more than a few dozen.
  • all humanoid avatars should generally be compatible with all humanoid clothing: A unisex mesh t-shirt should fit reasonably well on either male or female forms (i.e. as well as SL system clothing).
  • a wide range of avatar sizes should be supported - tiny pixies and enormous giants should be able use standard body parts and clothing. Of course, they should interact with each other and the world correctly according to their size: a mouse should be able to scamper through a tiny hole. Godzilla can’t even get inside the house.


While we’re adding pie-in-the-sky items to the wish list, wouldn’t it be nice if you could wear a hat without worrying about your hair sticking through it?


That’s just crazy talk.


hair poking through , you should try having donkey ears lol


Hmm - wouldn’t it hurt to smoosh your ears under a hat? Hmm… I’m suddenly imagining ear proprioception and haptic feedback! Horns, at least, you could poke right through.


help i’m being repressed :stuck_out_tongue:


The thing i dislike most about the SL avatar is that its one set avatar default pattern and what people have to do is deform it, crush it, manipulate it to be all the various shapes and creatures. I envision an open virtual world where Creators create many different avatar patterns, the more successful patterns will get content creators building accessories for those patterns. You might even get Avatar applications that create and accessorise certain types of avatar. But i hope HyFy never decides to have one specific default pattern for making and customising an avatar.


From a scholarly/education/VR theoretical/TransHumanistic POV, I would also add that one of the main strengths of Virtual Worlds is their facilitation of individualized experimentation with personal identity. I won’t bore you with all of the scholarly literature. Suffice it to say, we have found that this facility for personal identity expression has, heretofore, only had it’s surface scratched, in previous generations of Virtual Worlds, and is of unimaginable potential value for the evolution of human communication, understanding and collaboration. Therefore different IKs/collision physics/modes of animation/lighting/scripting should be facilitated on as all-inclusive/grand a scale as is reasonably possible in HiFi from the beginning! TY


Look, all I want out of this is a chance to wear a voxel skirt. Is that too much to ask?


No that wasn’t a typo… I like skirts… they’re comfy.


I think we all agree, the the skeleton/bones need to be better then the ones in SL. especially working fingers and hands are important for projects with people that have handicaps. so better do the feets to.

I just agree that there need to be more joints in HiFi for the avatar.


Kinda a side note, sorry to get off topic… But I was just thinking about this…

I’ve always been one for having as much freedom as possible, when it comes to Avatars. In online virtual worlds, people should have the freedom to look like anything they could possibly want, just like people can be anonymous if they want. And I generally view people who only want “humanoid” avatars or other strict guidelines, as small minded and too concerned with the business of others. If how others appear bothers you, maybe you shouldn’t be playing.
If someone wants to be a tiny fairy, fine but they might get stepped on or ignored… If they wanna be invisible then they need to cleverly figure out how to do that (a la Snow Crash). If they wanna be huge, then they’re going to have a hard time fitting through doorways… If they wanna be ugly or monsterous or a confusing blob, or goofy or childlike, then they’ll be treated like that by other users. Socially, it should all generally balance out.
Of course, there are limitations due to the way the technology and facial animations works, but beyond that, people should have as much freedom as possible, not limited by the sensitivities and preferences of the small-minded.

As long as what you’re suggesting, gives people more freedom, not less in restricting them to only a certain shape/layout, then I’m fine with it… But keep in mind there are lots of creative ways that people can design avatars, which might not fit into your ideas. heh