Mandate for an Avatar


#21

Keep in mind that the idea of a standard humanoid avatar isn’t necessarily a push to force everyone into such a shape! A standardised humanoid avatar, is simply a unified target for creating accessories for such that have wide appeal.

There would be nothing stopping the creation of similar standardised avatars for, equians, picians, avians, kanids, saurians, various classes of insectoids, Bugblatter-Beasts-of-Traal etc. each of which would also have their own shape-optimised accessories markets.

And the user would still be free to go with a completely unique shape of their own concoction, at the expense of having to provide their own accessories to go with it.

I am thinking that if good public meshes of various types become available, groups of users will ultimately settle on their own standards, anyway.


#22

Sliding scale of avi detail

I have some thoughts on this. Following hf’s general design direction, I think a clearly defined, sliding scale of avatar quality is required - from being reduced to a single coloured voxel right up to a detailed close-up of an eye or finger when, for example, adjusting attachments. Following this idea through to the n’th, I see a requirement for a hugely highly detailed avatar - e.g. multiple facial muscles, two roll-bones per limb, the complete set of 33 vertebrae spine joints, fingers with 3 rotation axes, etc, etc - turn it all up to 11! The level of detail described by the avatar would obviously be dependant on factors like available bandwidth, graphical / processing power of client platform, availability of contributed devices etc etc. I think this idea fits hf’s high fidelity goals and closely matches the scenario of low-end, greyscale and fuzzy avis from the public terminals in the book that doesn’t need mentioning :wink:

Animation retargetting woes - 3 avi solution?

The problem, of course, with having any sort of variability in the joint structure is the subsequent fitting of animation sequences. A certain amount of automatic animation retargetting is possible, so perhaps work could be done producing two fairly standard (male and female) avatars whose proportions are loosely constrained to actual human proportional limits. The task of automatically retargetting ‘standard format’ animations would be easier than for a more general case, as there would not be such extreme boundary conditions to deal with. However, having had a good crack at implementing automatic retargetting in the past, I can confirm it’s a far from trivial task! (see here)
A third, far more customisable avatar for people who want to take avi customisation further could be also offered. This avi would be highly configurable, so people choosing to purchase a custom avi - an animal avi, for example - would probably pay more because by necessity it would include it’s own, unique bone structure and set of animations.
So, in defining three (or even more) classes of avatar, we could go some way towards catering for the hugely broad range of technical ability of users in avatar customisation.


#23

We could all just put forward a rig and say were using this one. This wouldn’t prevent anyone else making different ones but would allow the interested parties to get on with making things. I don’t envision the Hifi people laying down the law on how we should create any avatar.
What I would like to see is a setup a little like How the Blender people use Avastar. http://blog.machinimatrix.org/
I’m thinking if we use Rigify (a biped rig build into Blender so both free and open source) http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?200371-Rigify-Auto-rigging-system-new-and-improved
We either create or find a default male and female avatar made of beautifully looped quads with a nice readable uv that the skin makers can get behind.
Someone way more competent than me could create blendshapes and sliders so the ava can be customized easily in a similar way to SL.
It could have facial rigging and a script could be created so it spits out the required blend-shapes necessary to make it Faceshift.

We have been pointed by the developers toward Mixamo.com Makehuman.org and https://charactergenerator.autodesk.com/
which are all nice programmes but largely proprietary systems and whilst they give fast results my results from using these solutions were lacking in the personality we should expect from vr going forward.


#24

@Judas Really interesting to hear comments from a modelling / skinning perspective. I’ve had a look at the links, from what I see, Blender with Rigify looks great; the Rigify skeleton has a full hand bone structure and also supports roll-bones. From the animation perspective however, it would be nice to see at least a couple more joints in the back (vertebrae), as higher quality mocap data more often than not contains this information. I didn’t get as far as seeing if this was possible with Rigify, but would be great if it is, as having what’s effectively a ‘higher res’ skeleton obviously gives the option of displaying higher quality animation data, whether it be streamed or pre-recorded. If the data source is a lower end setup (e.g. Kinect), then it’s an almost trivial operation to split the source’s animation rotation data over the muliple vertebrae on the avatar, which (IMHO) still produces a more natural looking effect than with just the two vertebrae. Win win, either way!


#25

Well, the old system-clothes in SL let you wear, say, a V-neck shirt over an undershirt, and through the V-neck you could see the part of the undershirt that wasn’t covered by the shirt. When SL introduced mesh clothes, though, we lost that feature. Okay, you COULD put on a mesh undershirt and then put on a mesh shirt, but more than likely the undershirt would poke through parts of the shirt, and so on. It wasn’t designed with the assumption we’d want to wear multiple layers of clothes on top of each other and have the shirt conform itself around the undershirt, or for that matter, for a pair of pants to conform itself around some toddler-avatar’s mesh diaper. I AM hoping that whatever clothing system we devise for HiFi does allow clothing on top of clothing, where each layer of it contours itself around the shape of the garment underneath it, in a nested manner.


#26

Many good points

what im thinking is this

@davedub will pick the best rig for all his animation needs
then we need a male and a female ava both with lovely uv’s and topology and all the stuff to enable content creation
then we need something like avastar for blender to give us a free route to make and design clothing
the default avatars will come with mesh kitr type clothing as default , layering like @Nathan_Adored suggested but allowing people with basic Photoshop skills to re texture them. but more advanced users can create original clothing to suit.

I think its unlikely that a avatar creation option will be available inside hifi
but it really does need a standard male female ava to enable animation creation and clothing creation
a world were there are only hand made unique avas wont drive interest or uptake of the platform or its economy.

and yes I keep Banging on about Blender but its free Maya is $1470 a year :stuck_out_tongue:


#27

Fitted mesh in sl is a big money and time waste, it just dont work. i know creators that have tried it. fitted mesh just dont fit. SO forget that terrible system. Really hope HIFy just make a system that you can make mesh clothing and it just fit. without weighting headaces etc. and UV skins STandard avatars is other big mistake. it dont wortk, because there are no standard avatars. it would let things look boring to. so dump standard avatars to ! If you go for standard avatars, make sure that things work right with not standard avatars to.

Lol, judas, blender is cheap free and what i know and hear more easy to learn then maya. :slight_smile:


#28

posts this here 2 as its well relevant


#29

What if the clothing could be seeded on the body then
adjusted and designed on the fly, once happy, a clean uv generated
and template for PS painting.

Something like the environment sculpting in the Godus game.


Of course I have no clue how to code this :smiley:

Will there be an LOD for extreme high res that will feature real time cloth/hair sim?

Also just to comment on @Judas earlier 3d package mention, you can get Maya LT for $240/year now.


#30

WIth HiFy i preffer to paint most of the mesh inside blender. Thats much more easy the fiddling with uv-map where lines never get how you like it. also HiFy dont use UV-Maps like we know in sl.

If i say something wrong am @judas is throwing some entity to me. :wink:


#31

http://gameyourself.de/#application

Just saw this scroll by, why do they always pick a guy who looks like a Hobbit to demo face capture?


#32

Thanks @Adrian for spotting this
http://docs.highfidelity.io/v1.0/docs/high-fidelity-avatar-standards

omg there’s a standard avatar. finally a common starting point we can develop for :slight_smile:


#33

The ‘Joint Hierarchy and Naming Convention’ link on the avatar standards doesn’t link to the relevant section - it is there though, it’s about 2/3 of the way down the page.

Just to confirm, this is the same joint naming convention I’m using in walk.js

  • davedub

#34

Just loaded lets call her Ruth into blender to have a look at the Standard female avatar.First impressions are good
.
If anyone’s got her rigged and or face shifting share pls lol. Ill have a look at doing it over the holidays


#35

For clothing I hope something like this will find it’s way in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zd1AI198I8

Cloth tend to be flexible, rimples in shirts change when moving.


#36

The layering of clothing is important to me too. I also want the clothes to actually move. A summer skirt SHOULD blow in the wind and should ripple in the breeze or as the avatar moves. While mesh clothing in SL allows some designs that are difficult with system or prim clothing, it’s so static and looks so plastic on moving avatars.


#37

Technically, they support blend shapes, which could be used to simulate cloth physics. They would have to be timed with the animations, so, when you turn, the right blend shapes play to get the affect.


#38

Making a good avatar is a very detailed and complex process maybe just have a random button people can press to at least get something close to what they are looking for instead of just having to initially deal with a hour or longer process of fine details.


#39

Hi @Xzemi you can get one form the marketplace.

Click “Market”

Then go to avatars and click wear.


#40

This works its exactly what second life has. Random button is easier no scrolling or clicking links required just hit random.