Meetup - Monday, March 7th @ 2pm (PST)


#1

Hi All,

I trust we all had a great weekend. We will meet at our regular location hifi://sandbox/winter . Items to go over:

Chris


#2

Will bring a whole bunch of stuff related to PBR and some fun little observations :slight_smile:
Also related, I made a binding tutorial for the PBR textures from Blender, which maybe have gotten buried under the whole thread on PBS.


#3

For those of us who do not permit unsecure iframe elements, the URL is:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/mH5YXpcgAfs


#4

Is there a live video feed of the event today? As usual, I can’t hear worth a darn.

edit: BTW, any idea why we’ve not had our names appearing over our heads in world in weeks? I’d assumed this was some sort of bug and that it would quietly go back to working once they’d nailed whatever it was preventing it from working, but its been like this so long now that I’m wondering if this was a deliberate choice to turn off name hovertext in world. oO But its hard to tell whos who at the meetings anymore.


#5

@chris said @Philip doesn’t want/like name tags.

I can understand this, having nametags over heads continuously breaks the verisimilitude of the VR space. I’ve always just wanted to be able to touch an avatar to get their name.


#6

Well, considering that having a nametag was built into the platform from early on, it seems weird to just arbitrarily turn it back off without the rest of us having a say in the matter… or even really asking what our opinion on the matter is. It just one day stopped working, as if some kind of malfunction happened. In any event, it sounds to me more like something we, the end user should have a choice in whether or not that nametag appears over our heads, not someone deep in the system saying “Well, that feature out to go away” and quietly yanking it. Indeed, there used to be a way we COULD choose to not have our name appear above our heads: Delete the name out of the Display Name field or whatever it was called. All that really needs to be added is a checkbox in settings to let someone turn the nametag feature back on for their image in world. In fact, I’m pretty sure I remember it being described as one of the key features of HiFi down the road that you WOULD be able to decide TO HAVE your name appear above your head or for it to appear in some other way that’s trivial for the other guy to see or access it. That is, you’d control how MUCH of your name might be seen, which could be adjusted, or would automatically adjust itself, depending on what vista you visit, from a range where they ONLY see your first name all the way up to the point where they see your entire full name, but that the entire system of this was designed under the assumption that there’s ALWAYS GOING to be reason you’d SOMEtimes want your name to appear when you’re SOMEwhere in world. So, turning it completely OFF with no way for someone to individually turn it back ON is fundamentally taking us in the opposite direction than where I thought we were going with this.


#7

@Balpien.Hammerer haha, just to be clear. I said, ask Philip about name tags.


#8

Well, personally I hope we get BACK to having nametags hovering over our avatars again at our individual discretion, and that that plan @philip had described early on in the docs of having an easy way to decide how MIUCH of our name appears, on a dynamic basis, gets put in place. It’d be really useful to have some kind of slider detail, say, or a numerical value, that specifies a range of how much of our name gets presented, bottom being no identity information at all being presented, to just the general location you’re from, to them seeing only the first name (where maybe you specify by hand what part of your name that is) to more of your name (but still not all of it), and so on all the way up to full name and full virtual-world contact address, and you’d set what kinds of places each of those would automatically be adjusted to. I.e. you’re walking down the virtual street in virtual public and maybe all they see is “Bob,” but if you go to a music club event, this automatically changes so they now see you as “Bob the Orange Dragon.”


#9

I don’t think I’ve ever seen any real person wearing letters spelling out their name over their heads. I would not want it in RL or even in HiFi. But that is just me.

If it does become an option here again, I would hope the option would be the choice of the domain owner and not of the interface user.


#10

Here is the video from the meetup:


#11

It should be the user’s choice how much of their name appears, that WAS one of the fundamental design elements philip had given early on. I don’t like the idea of a domain owner locking things so I have no choice BUT to have my whole name showing, or something. oO


#12

I was talking about display names, so what anyone shows is their choice. But take these three examples.

A closed educational domain. In many cases you might want everyone’s real name visible either shown over their heads or via mouse over or something.

A role play domain where the owner of the domain determines what your name and role is.

A realistic or a cinematic place where you want to simulate a real life situation or tell a story or experience, no names showing at all.

I stand by my statement. You don’t have to visit my place/domain, but if you do, it should be by my rules not yours.


#13

Well then… :slight_smile:

by Philip Rosedale on Monday, March 31, 2014
https://blog.highfidelity.com/blog/2014/03/identity-in-the-metaverse/


#14

Generally speaking, if you own a domain, you could technically simply load up a UI script on the visitors, which renders the name tags ontop of other peoples avatars. Edit script is an example of UI loaded locally instead of externally.
It can also be improved to a point that friends can only see your name tag, and so forth (but this is script dependent)

It is just a matter of someone making that sorta script.


#15

I’m having trouble accepting the posture "Because real life doesnt have so-and-so (name tags) the metaverse also shouldnt.

This thinking is logical fallacy. The metaverse is nothing like RL, it doesnt even look like it, what percentage of the metaverse is going to be built to look like like RL? Some but not all of it, a huge portion will be dedicated to sci-fi. steam-punk, and fantasy in general, cartoons and games etc, so tell me again why its important to pretend its just like RL?
Lets say a picture of a fish is just like a fish. We can say that but its not true, Its nothing like a fish its a picture, even if its an animated video its still an image.
So much extra stuff is essential to be added in VR because it is VR. It simply isnt RL and doesnt behave like RL. We dont use keyboards mouse and screens or even HMD in real life either. We dont eat or sleep in VR either so where is that logic now?

We invent things to comfortably habitate and navigate the VR, we invent everything we need.

My argument:
In RL no 2 people look alike, in VR there might be 30,000 people using the same avatar, see? Nothing like RL, how do I tell one person from another if they all look alike? If we really cared about communication we would have no issue with nametags or text chat or whatever we need to account for the fact that VR is not RL.


#16

If this was going to be a virtual world like second life I would agree but as a development platform I would imagine such refinements would be implemented as and when required by the specific development teams.
Re name tags in second life. I have em turned off because their ugly and look like a swarm of flies at a busy event.
On a day to day basis in hifi there are only like 10 people I have found either the look at the online list and compare it to the domain your in or the Oi you approach works well.


#17

The really big issue is that of consistent identification. There are many reasons I or a script need to know that the avatar with ID=1234 is the same avatar no matter how many times I run across him/hermit and no matter in which domain I encounter that avatar. Reasons:

  1. They subscribe to a service, and the service scripts need to be able to identify that avatar
  2. They bought a product and that product needs to identify them to deliver whatever experience they licensed
  3. I want to continue a conversation with the same avatar. That conversation might be sensitive, so I really need to know I am conversing with the same avatar.
  4. The avatar was a miscreant, and they need to be blocked from entering a domain or blocked from using services I provide. I really need to ensure the service is targeting the same avatar (preferably the same person behind all avatars they own).

From that comes how to obtain the friendly name associated with the ID; that is, ID=1234 is “Balpien Hammerer”.

Though display names are quite useful for RP or other short term usage, they are ephemeral, temporally inconsistent, may spoof other display names or friendly names, hence they are less than worthless for identification purposes.

Now note that although I need or scripts might need a consistent access to an avatar’s ID (or friendly name), it does not follow that the information needs to be always displayed over their heads. That can be gleaned by the VR equivalent of ‘facial recognition’ which is to do something that discloses the ID/friendly name. That is what I meant earlier by touching the avatar to get that data. It can be yet another of the myriad preloaded scripts in interface that discloses the data.

My huge concern is that if a consistent ID for an avatar is not going to be available always, it breaks an enormous number of requirements to conduct oneself or conduct a business in High Fidelity. That level of anonymity is unworkable.