SL Inventory and High Fidelity


#1

Sometimes you talk global about High Fidelity. not in depth.
But i start to hear the same thing as with opensim.

“I want my SL inventory with me if i move to High Fidelity”

Now is High Fidelity not the same as opensim with object protection and permissions.
Expect that High Fidelity is close to what SL is doing with perms and right ?

But how could we solve this possible problem ?
If creators from SL are willing to bring there tsuuf at some point into High Fidelity then the could give the items again to existing SL users that move to High Fidelity.

possible problem with that is offcorse, that the maby dont want todo that. or cannot track who buyed what. Well, lets all think abit about this. if there would be some solution.
ok, you need help from the oprginal creators. but where money is… :open_mouth:


#2

Current SL users WILL want their inventories. And merchants will want to move their brands intact. Remember, SL merchants are making real money there - enough to support their families every month - if they cannot make an equal or better living in HF, they simply won’t bother.

There would have to be a secure way to move items keeping permissions intact to make this work. Unless it’s easy and seamless, people won’t bother. Sorry to be such a wet dishrag.


#3

The way HiFi is set up is completely different than Sl or OpenSim, it is all new structure and there would be no direct compatibility AFAIK. Creators would be able to re-use some assets just as they would on any other non SL/OpenSim engine, such mesh, textures, sound and animations, providing they have the original source files. The scripting language is different, there are nothing quite equivalent to “prims” etc.


#4

I am not sure I do want my sl inventory with me in hf… while a lot of us are in both places right now, isn’t the point of hf that this is something totally different, not an sl me-too? Maybe I am missing something :slight_smile:


#5

As a content creator in SL, I would not want my creations moved here as part of someone’s existing inventory (if that were possible, and I don’t think it is). Scripted items would not work here, and while I am working to learn javascript, it will be a long time until I am proficient at it. I would not be able to meet demands to support SL inventory here in High Fidelity.

Another issue for content creators has to be copyright protection and ownership of content. Many of my products would be compatible with Open Sim, Kitely, etc. but I have declined to make my products available there because their terms of service do not guarantee ownership or content protection.

I think it is somewhat unreasonable to expect that inventory should transfer over from Second Life. Do you demand that it be transferred over to Everquest Landmark, or World of Warcraft or Skyrim or Unity or any other game or platform? Of course not. They are completely different platforms and a lot of content is not compatible without work.

It would appear to me that High Fidelity will not be offering a platform, sims, land or anything like what Second Life does. As I understand it, they will be providing a connection between authentication modules, basic software, and links to servers powered by others. Creators of platforms would be using the infrastructure to create “places” in virtual reality. I might trust Joe to protect my content and copyright, but what about Sue and Tom?

What I decide to bring in and how I make it available will evolve over time, as the platform develops. That is a very long way off. These are early days.


#6

I think People have only talked about bringing SL inventories into OpenSim, mainly because the platforms are so similar, Some might say they are same. Even then we have never seen inventory transfer out of SL.
As mentioned previously HF is a completely different animal to SL/OS and not inter connectable, For a start your SL avatar (and implicit inventory) doesnt exist outside of SL, so inventory ownership is encapsulated within SL.

Users will start from scratch.
Simply, I dont think whole objects will be able to be transferred directly from SL into HF.
Thats going to be all about getting stuff out of SL first, if you have the perms.

Perhaps using a backup application like Second Inventory you can save xml files of whatever you own (full perm) and modify them in a 3D ap, I believe prim objects can be converted to mesh with some aps, mesh can also be converted to voxels. The thing is once the files are on your computer then you can work them.

Mentioned also is that any objects that you uploaded into SL are still yours to upload into HF including any textures meshes and sounds that you own, avatars are a whole other thing but using 3rd party software avatar meshes can be exported from SL and their relevant textures also saved out if you are the creator, then possibly modified to suit uploading into HiFi. So in this case true creators will be able to simply upload their creations.

My 2 cents time… True that SL merchants will stay in SL as long as thats where the sales are, but I project a future that has the population of HiFi reaching a level where the SL merchants will have no way to ignore the lost sales in a new world and will find a way to pack-down their tory and migrate some of it for reuse in HiFi. Ultimately learning to adapt to the current technology or get left behind.

Nothing lasts forever, lets face it, as good as it is, SL has a use by date, the next generation of Virtual worlds is being built right now, and 3D content creation is exploding all over.


#7

Adrian I totally agree. This thread is about comparing apples to rocks and bananas to spaceships.

Times move on and while Second Life had it’s time and it’s entrepreneurs, the whole of the fabric of society is different now. Crowd-funding, Open source, collaborative working, etc are all products of a modern era, where (hopefully) all will benefit in joint endeavors, rather than one person being able to amass fortune at the expense of others. OK, end of soapbox - but if you want to read more, try the ‘Big Five For Life’ and its cohorts.

This is an amazing platform and considering it’s funding (which is relatively low against comparative endeavors), along with the ethos that has birthed it - it is a wonderful opportunity for all to share and help one another.

Of course you will be able to profit too. However, the number of people who can collaborate is much larger than in, say Second Life. Which was in it’s day a leader (would have liked to have seen more marketing there guys!). Unfortunately some things in SL simply cannot be moved forward - due to the legacy environment in which it was created.

It is understandable that you may be dispirited by the fact you cannot merely move your SL creations here and make instant money by expanding your brand into a new platform, especially for scripters and prim builders. However we should all celebrate this new possibility and more open way of experiencing and sharing our creations with others.

Yes, I agree that there is no LSL or other SL-specific methodology, so we are on a more level playing field with creators from other 3D environments. Yet, the platform uses industry standard processes instead. Coders use javascript and C++. Modellers use Autodesk’s .fbx and .fst - these things are the standards being used across industries. When creatign mesh, you won’t have to change the vertices and triangles because of the difference in the models. I am testing to see if you will lose faces here as you do in SL and have to revert to inverting faces, as you do with Second Life?

In conclusion, this is an opportunity for people currently embedded inside Second Life to learn - about other platforms and other ways of doing things. Those people would also bring with them their knowledge of how things work on a virtual environment. For performance artists, the potential viewing audience just grew exponentially. The only problem I see is the unwillingness to grow and adapt to the ever increasing pressures of cloud and collaborative working and industry standards.

I applaud this move (and others) that grow towards the good of all (back on soapbox). I’m just sad that I was born too early to see it through to it’s full conclusion (which I anticipate happening in 30ish years time).


#8

I know this all, but for some people the problem is the have hugh inventory’s maby spend lots of money on it. and that keeps them possible from moveing. because the need to spend money again the maby not have anymore and possible not find the clothing and things the want.

Thats a bit what i understand from the last years.
Seen and heared the same problems with opensim. but that did have a few other extra problems on top that i expect High Fidelity dont have.


#9

Richardus,

I hear you totally.

You can count me too as one of those people with a Huge (costly and valuable) inventory in SL. However I am resigned to the fact that we have to draw a line under Second Life and move on and forwards into the future.

Some may not be prepared to do this, and that is their choice I guess. Sad though it is.


#10

Second Life is far from dead. It is not time to count them out just yet. High Fidelity is in very early alpha, and I think we are still a long way away from beta. Second Life has evolved and changed and is still in the game after 11 years. Linden Lab is an investor in High Fidelity. I think Second Life will continue to evolve and change, and will likely reap benefits from the work being done by High Fidelity.

There are many bloggers who seem to be in a rush to write an obituary for Second Life, and they have been for a few years. So far, they have been wrong, and I expect that trend to continue.


#11

Its good to read the views from others.
for myself am used for years now to use different software
then secondlife. but still use secondlife to. And am still happy i can see High Fidelity grow.
Offcorse i dont feel active enough with it. but time will tell.

We HyFi’ers at least dont look behind the horizon. its like other said. if some important people start to move and things are intressting. but for now there’s lots to be done with Hifi.


#12

Vivienne I am not out to pick a fight here. I have my opinion and you have yours. I respect yours.

I’m sure you could be right about HF - that its innovations will be retrofitted into Second Life so that it remains the dominant platform that its users believe it to be and that HF will die an early death very soon after the benefits developed here are brought back into Second Life.


#13

I am sorry Debs, I was not aiming that at you. I should have worded that more carefully. It was aimed at some popular SL blogs I have been annoyed with lately, but I shall not identify them to protect the names of the guilty! Grins.

I very much appreciate and respect your point of view, and the point of view of everyone here. All input is valuable.


#14

smiles  @Vivienne I didn’t take offense.

I have long been a very strong supporter and promoter of Second Life, having appeared on the BBC Money Program in 2007. I promoted the potential of SL on TV as well as in the press. I brought the RL London Fashion Week to SL as well as working with other events & organisations. I continue to run blogs and link them with Facebook, Twitter etc to promote Second Life.

So, like you, I am still supporting the mind share of that platform. As @Richardus commented, there is a lot to do here, but I personally believe that there is potential for more people to benefit (I guess I am a dreamer).

However as you @Vivienne point out, Second Life could very well be the beneficiary of this work instead of it continuing in HF. This is something I am certain current merchants and landowners in Second Life would wish for - along with people with huge existing inventories in that platform who would not want to lose the value of purchases made there.

Perhaps this is more for the merchants to consider? Could they be willing to offer their SL customers the SL equivalent for free in HF? This would be the best scenario in my opinion - but I may be assuming too much altruism on the part of merchants who have historically made their living out of SL?


#15

Its maby more easy to convert SL to High fidelity. then the other way.
The whole problem with the SL servers are that the are made on whole different architecture.
and to implement voxels in sl thats almost writeing new server software.

its i think more easy top convert the inventory to hifi. but like mentoined also thats not compatible in many ways. i dont think secondlife can implement much from high fidelity.
also i wish i could do more in sl, but a region is 80% to expensive in sl. And we get on top also vat.

I think there are not many left now that can life from sl income alone this days.


#16

I think you are right Richardus. Not many creators make a living from a Second Life business. I have a lot for sale and consider my SL business to be successful. However, it only covers the cost of my sim and gives me a little money to spend on clothing, shoes and hair. You can’t ever have enough hair!


#17

The Hypergrid folks have put in a lot of thought about how to support heterogeneous inventory between a mixture of trusted and untrusted grids. I think the way to implement inventory portability between SL and HiFi would be to talk SL into supporting use-level access to SL assets: many assets would be simply client-side (textures) and could easily be exported (okay, easily from a technical perspective - license would be a different matter), but anything requiring interaction with the physics of the world or server-executable code would want to only be shared with trusted nodes. Physics could probably be managed pretty easily, but running LSL scripts in a meaningful way in HiFi would be rather tougher, both from a “running it” and an IP leakage perspective.


#18

two notes, to late for long one.

  1. is that the reason why Linden Lab changed the
    ToS about the rule ‘we can do with your items what we want’ ?
    But there’s still owner ip right.

  2. for lsl script you could think about something complex
    as some emulator. but its not a nice way.

  3. Maby not everything from sl can be used. but clothing etc.
    and textures would be a big hurray. i buyed
    textures to in sl in the past. but its more what you say license / owner problem.


#19

I’ll add my tuppence, as I used to do some creation in SL (Animazoo animations). From my perspective, I’d agree - I still have all my old source files and would welcome trying them out in a viable new market at some point.

I think what might make the migration path easier is if, using the example of animations, the old bvh file, as prepared for SL, could be uploaded directly to HyFY - i.e. without any conversion to fbx or retargeting to a new joint structure.


#20

ooh loved Animazoo. whilst you can bring the sl avatar and rig into HF as you said the bvh isn’t supported .I think Blender will export a fbx anim and import bvh so their should be a conversion workflow. One of the things a few of us are banging on about is settling on a standard biped rig, so we can all develop to a standard