So, are we able to do self-hosted content yet?


#1

I know this was something that was been in the stated plans from a long time ago, but where are we in relation to having the ability to self-host content on one’s own machine and have it accessible form outside? Particularly things like, say, one’s avatar?

And if one can’t self-host one’s avatar yet on one’s own machine… what is the current, best, no-cost or low-cost way of hosting one’s custom avatar online for use here?


#2

Would be cool to have a public folder in the atp for avatars maybe


#3

I ended up just using this to host my avatar https://www.cesanta.com/products/binary . Real simple to run you just drop it in the same folder as your avatar and click on it, will start a web server on port 8080 hosting only what was in that folder.


#4

Other than Avatars… what’s wrong with ATP? It allows you to upload all your content to a domain and serve it to visitors. That’s been around forever, relatively speaking, is stable and robust. Avatars continue to need a hosting solution (HTTP) if they’re to be seen outside one’s own domain space. The glorious future offers solutions to that as well.


#5

I currently use the free “~username” web-space my ISP supplies with my connection. Small and free. Just right. (I have a separate paid-for web space (with a non-~ name) where I host my important web site, so having a use for the free space is rather nice).


#6

What is wrong with it is that if you have a locally hosted domain, every time a new avatar arrives that does not have all the content in cache, it will drag down the up bandwidth. Here in the US, most cheap isps usually have a 2, 5 or 10 to 1 download to upload ratio.

Unless you have very simple content, it will lag everyone to be unusable when one or two people arrive if you use ATP.

It is fine for one’s personal use or for having a few friends over, but if you want your domain to perform as well as can be, cloud hosting of assets is a must. (unless you have a very good connection)


#7

One reason why i moved everything to vps. the costs are the same. but much more bandwidth.

Overal it still would be nice and make high fidelity more interesting fr big group if people just could rent a domain. Because there enough people that not have the bandwidth.

But, what @Nathan.Adored want, and i think it’s interesting to have is a public ATP directory. where you can put content in like your avatar that can be read from every domain. ATP can right now not share assets between domains. @draxtor would be happy with public ATP directory option to.


#8

Yes - that’s a valid point - I forget these things since I host my ATP via machines not connected to home network level stuff. But - that said - it is the answer to original post other than avatars that could be seen outside the scope of ATP self hosted.


#9

We know that self-hosted avatars is still a process with too much friction.

The initial design for ATP, though not yet fully completed, had plans to use a peer-to-peer distribution and discovery mechanism so that the asset files for your avatar could be easily discovered in domains other than your own. We will either build this out or use an already established project that offers us the same benefits.

We’ve been testing IPFS in the last couple of weeks - https://ipfs.io/

Though we’re not certain I think it is possible that IPFS delivers on much of what we wanted ATP to be.

I know Philip specifically has tested putting his avatar on IPFS and had good results. If you’re interested, I’d love to have some of you try hosting an avatar on it and get some feedback on the IPFS process/speed. If we were to embrace IPFS fully we would more tightly integrate it into the system, but for know you can get pretty far since their software can provide HTTP links that handle the peer discovery/download.


#10

Hopefully this can include encrypting assets as well…


#11

As usual, I don’t understand everything in these conversations regarding networking, so I have three questions:

  1. Are you saying that if my avatar is on a cloud service like Amazon, then I won’t be a “drag” on someone’s domain when I show up?
  2. If one is true, then are there any (video) tutorials on how to “link” content on Amazon to my domain? A quick Google search and YouTube search turned up negative.
  3. If I put my avatar or other content on a service like Amazon, is it possible to keep others from coping it? It is my understanding (and I could be wrong) that if my content is on the “sandbox” provided by High Fidelity, it can’t be copied without a great deal of effort.
    Thanks!!!

JR


#12

I was talking about the content of your domain (sandbox). The models, entities, sounds etc. that people see and hear when they visit. My comments on lag were only related to the content hosted on a domain. Hosting an avatar is a bit different.

  1. Yes hosting your avatar on a fast cloud server will speed up how quickly other people see you on a domain. At the moment, this is really the only choice you have until we have something like what @b was talking about above. I also don’t think it would ever make much sense to host it local just because if you go to somewhere with 10 people, your machine would have to serve out ten copies of your avatar which can be avoided by hosting elsewhere.

  2. Short story is, get free one year trial of S3 (if they still have free version), create bucket, upload file, set perms to everyone, copy URL, open HiFi interface, paste in URL into model, sound etc…

  3. There are some ways to make it a bit harder to copy things but simple answer is no. And it all depends on what your definition of a great deal of effort is.

Until things change here, hosting your avatar on your local Sandbox machine will only work if you stay on that domain.
And even with something like ipfs.io (which looks like fun), I am not sure if I’d like to have my machine host peer to peer stuff, just from a bandwidth point of view.


#13
  1. Yes, the drag is on the server that contains the content.

  2. I’ll post a diagram

3a. No, content protection or any DRM is (unfortunately) not part of the HF design

3b. Yes, content you post anywhere including in your personal domain (aka sandbox) can be easily copied. Consider any content you place in your domains a gift to the world.


#14

I read @b’s comment as an auto migration process. You place contents in ATP and a migration process happens to host the stuff on faster content servers. There is a little hand-waving about how to specify who it hosts to, how to pay for that service, how to cap the bandwidth consumed by the migration process, details TBD, etc.


#15

Thanks!!! That would be greatly appreciated!

BTW, this conversation seem to center around avatars. Is the avatar usually the guilty party for sucking bandwidth? Or should other files, like the FBX of a large building or outdoor environment also be placed on a fast cloud server as well?


#16

This comes up often and was well discussed here:


#17

Basically, content on HiFi is as protected as content on a web page. By default, anyone who can see it can, with little effort, grab a copy. There will no doubt be ways to obstificate this sooner or later, in the same way that web pages can use JS to turn off the right-click–>Copy/Save-image-as… menu on images, but they will still not be hard to circumvent for anyone who is prepared to put in even a modicum of effort (Print-Screen, paste to GIMP and 10 seconds of image cropping, for the image example). Since HiFi is trying to be the Web Server of VR, that is probably to be expected.

As with all digital content on open platforms, you can’t actually lock it down fully because sooner or later a copy has to be in the viewer’s memory buffer (or the viewer would not be able to see/use/interact-with it).

Best approach is to not worry about ‘things’ (data) in VR and focus on overall user experience (service provision) in your world(s), something that cannot be duplicated without so much effort that the other party may as well be creating their own anyway.


#18

Point well taken. Thanks LaeMing.

JR


#19

I did an article on how you can use keybase to host some content. Its free and not too hard to setup. https://steemit.com/vr/@gr1b17cy/how-to-use-keybase-as-your-hifi-hosted-playground