Specular Rendering comparison with CloudParty and Sansar


#1

Facebook retrieved for me this image taken some years ago in CloudParty. The specular effects in CloudParty were quite impressive, I don’t see the same level of impressiveness in HighFidelity today (while they are still much better in Sansar). Could anyone explain why there is this difference in the render and if it can be improved in HF? Or maybe it is just something to be improved in the workflow of specifying normal, specular etc when importing models from 3d modelling programs?


#2

seems fine 2 me

hifi://cromptonmoor/4960,5416.96,4835.5/0,0.981411,0,-0.191916

I think the problem is the zone lighting in hifi is unfathomable so even if u get the textures assigned coorectly, the lighting will kill it


#3

Yes exactly (!)

What I noticed is that under default light conditions HF is not showing at best giving a kind of cartoon general aspect. I myself did have good results similar to yours using selected zones and/or special lights. This needed a lot of work in setting up lighting and zones.
I noticed that in Sansar or in CloudParty I got very nice effects with almost default lighting environments without particular problems. So maybe this is something that can be improved in offering default good lighting / zones in the marketplace? I’ve heard some people fleeing out from HF because of the perceived general quality of texture rendering. This could be solved easily then if we can have on the marketplace some “studio” room with good zone and lights already set up :slight_smile: What do you think?


#4

totally agree we need a zone or 2 designed to match say substance painters ones.
I think sansars engine pre bakes everything but much of it to my eye seems kinda dark with alot of low cut shadows.


#5

I was able for instance to have in HF dramatic nice effects with bump map in this video, but I needed to work for some hours to find the correct light angle: https://youtu.be/inQU0tOIWtA


#6

Looks great there , shame it was raining
:slight_smile:


#7

I think that a great option, regarding the lights will be to have a switch on the lights to enable or disable specularity, or even better, but more difficult to implement, will be to have the option to select objects affected by a particular light. This will be a major improvement on how domains will look. You can have a high intensity light, that don’t burn objects, an a low intensity light for specular effect.


#8

I’m so not sure… Seems it would make an incoherent result.
But well, I will think again about this.

What is sure is that we can agree that the default sky is not helping anyone to get good results immediately.
Without a good ‘sky / ambient’ and a keylight adjusted to have the ‘sun’ position the fit the sky, don’t expect something nice.


#9

I think that it can be a good idea to provide some zones in the marketplace already set up with good standard lighting for some specific purposes say:

  1. zone set up for museums or exhibitions
  2. zone set up for open air sunny high detailed sculptures
    … and similar.

Also a better documentation tutorials and video on how to set up lights and zones is definitely needed, so far the only thing we can learn from the tutorial is how to make the sky blueish (!) https://docs.highfidelity.com/create-and-explore/entities/zone-entities/zone-properties

image


#10

See also the video I made in 2013 about that domain in cloudparty for the effect we could easily obtain in cloudparty (the original photo didn’t catch the real goodness of the scene). https://youtu.be/3xrj-7syCN8?t=831


#11

The second one is relatively simple. A good sky, a good keylight setup, the correct value for the Ambient intensity.

But in the first case, the quality of the effect will depend of that “museum building” you put around. Because to be as close as possible of the reality, you would need an Ambient texture that is a capture of the inside of that museum. (Which we can now do using the new camera application)

For example, if you put an object that is very reflective as a mirror, that will be very weird if it reflects other things that what is around. Ambient is always a fake (per necessity of performance). The Quality of it depends of how close from the real thing you can fake it.

Yes, we can provide some pre-made zones on the market place, but at the end it will always going to be a question of learning how it works and do it for the context where we use it.

Maybe we just need a good tutorial about this. The current doc is in my sense still too abstract. It would require vulgarization, not only about the Hifi part, but also about how objects react to the ambient light, and why it’s faked, otherwise, it’s not easy to understand.


#12

This is actually where I got the most problems :frowning:
When you say “good” sky, good skylight and “correct values” for the Ambient intensity you already got me lost.

Which are the “good” values? default values proposed by the interface seem quite dull, but when you set them to different values they got instantly too high.

Also haze is defaulted to on.

This is how it appears a vertical plate under default zone lighting.

If i remove the haze the situation is slightly improved but still very dark:

Setting skybox color to white instead of black does not improve the rendering:

adding max environment light does change something but not a lot:

and only when light altitude is set to 30 degrees i start having a good result.

This is why I proposed to have them well documented and with defaults already almost usable.

Sorry for the repetition but it would be very nice if there were some preset ligths in the UI proposing some well defined lighting like dawn, midday, night, sunset, (and maybe spring/fall/winter/summer) without struggling to get them via lengthy trial and error phases.

Also Interface seems to stop reflecting the changes in the zone settings after a while and this gets very frustrating, before understanding it you can took some minutes and then relogging will fix the issue.


#13

The Zone altitude property is a thing with this, I remember messing with it and the effect on the shadows
we can export zones as json files and share them
but different location different effect
we need maybe a sphere with a zone in it and a platform thing to be a standard sharable thing
Ill do one when im back from town


#14

Thanks @judas, I am preparing a class for my students (noprofit activity) teaching them how to set up properly a zone, so they will be less frustrated than me in using this very powerful tool :slight_smile: They will surely enjoy having a good starting point different from the defaults.

BTW: my students are 90% teachers willing to use HighFidelity in their classes to their children aged 11-18 for teaching various subjects, in a similar way they are already using OpenSim.


#15

Is a teacher also , but my students enjoy nothing :smiley:


#16

http://mpassets.highfidelity.com/dab40d4d-62b4-493c-939e-e79e63c07c59-v1/testskybox.json

heres my first effort , no light just a zone

edit -import entities from url


#17

seems nice :slight_smile:

Maybe a kind of door can help people enter in the studio (had to make it collisionless) :slight_smile:

I think that a visual zone like this can be much more understood by students than an invisible zone, while I understand that the real HF zone is really powerful :slight_smile:


#18

That’s the point. It’s why a tutorial should go a bit further and explain how the light is working on object to allow people to figure what to set as values.
I guess I should try to do one.


#19

Yes a door lol, i noticed that
also seeing the different colour between our 2 photos

theres a box with a zone around it using an ambient map and the head


#20

This studio, is it a box with the normal set inside ?