Standard Human Avatar as discussed at Fridays meeting


We seemed to agree that a standard human avatar would help move development along.
I vote that @Menithal should be in charge of going yes no to everything we suggest

It needs to be all completely it can be re sold modified anyway anyone chooses

It needs to have a set of bones that work in Hifi with the walk script and with the leap hands and hydra hands script
The bone naming convention needs to be as much like everyone elses as possible and compatible with the package model up loader
It needs to have at least a basic implementation of the Shapekeys/Blendshapes to be compatible with Faceshift and DDE facetracking.

It needs to export from Blender and with the supplied Fst file this basic avatar should just work.

looking at Avastar for blender it seems possible that Blender can be made to control body size shape sliders like in makehuman(it would be nice to have the avatar creation all happen in the one free prog be it all in blender or all in make human if our solution can be built into make human.)
The implementation needs to be a simple and user friendly as possible. The simpler the basic avatar is to customize then the more people will do it.
your turn

  1. Erm… anatomy?
  2. Skin UV map compatibility?


My vote is on @Menithal. He is the most knowledgeable in my humble opinion. Any and all testing you need done on your concepts please let us know. I’m sure @Judas, myself, and others will not stand by while you shoulder the burden alone. We just need to look to someone that is confident enough to “make the right call” and it seemed pretty obvious in the meeting you’ve got a lot of folks willing to get behind the cause.

DK2+Leap in house with a PrioVR Dev Kit on the way. I’ll try to be as helpful as I can.


@Judas - regarding walk script compatibility, I’d urge people not to be concerned about it - I think it’s important to get the avatar bones structure correct ‘by the book’ - i.e. standard joint orientations and naming convention, zeroed out pre / post rotations, etc. Once we’re confident the armature is correct, I can very quickly and easily re-tweak the script’s animation datafiles to work correctly for correctly rigged avis (I have a set of animation datafiles already tweaked and ready for upload that work great with the Mixamo avis, am just waiting for the ok from @chris to upload them).

The script should be made to work with correct rigging, not the other way around. Reading all the current posts on avi creation methods, I can see how many challenges u guys are up against. Compatibility with the walk script you don’t have to worry about, it will be easily made to fit whichever solution u guys come up with.

That said, I was under the impression that the Mixamo avis could be taken as standard in terms of joint orientations and pre/post rotations etc - can anyone confirm this?


This will have age-morphing in it too, at some point, I trust?


uv map thats a biggie , how many, where do we draw the compromise between detail and size and ease of use.
user readability is essential.
it needs to definitely be all quads with a big weird lookin ngon somewhere impossible to hide.


A standard AV that was modifiable in Blender would suit most users using HF.

However, there could be an opportunity to create a HF app for non-technical users - an exclusive HF avatar maker.

I’ve longed for something like that in other worlds; choose gender (to include non human) from a set of models - select a skin type from a pre-determined set, colour it, etc, etc… These are all processes we currently go through in Blender to create avatars. A program that does this all automatically will speed up the creation process and increase buy-in for new users.

It would need to be easy to use and enable you to generate your own avatar. This would be a real bonus for HF users. I for one would pay for that.


This is certainly not an easy decisions to make I was looking at the options with MakeHuman yesterday for rigging
they seem to have a few options there and I started to import them into blender and see how they moved
Some of them are not as realistic as others as you would expect with their skeletons How they bend and such

An easy converter would help like a plug-in for any of the programs I agree

My main concern would be movement and expressions on the face

But definitely it needs to be straightforwardan possibility when we get more advanced to edit these to our liking with we are not happy with them

I have lots of ideas but don’t want to complicate it

I think most people would agree this is just to get the Avatar started on some basic importing and we can have loads of different avatars with different options next


Too late i decided to take over and well here is the new standard avatar


My thoughts regarding MakeHuman rigs that are supported is that they lack middle weight options. It’s either some 150+ bone monster rig, or they lack basic facial bones we’d need like eyes. @MichelleLeckrone The better weighting you’re probably noticing is on the heavier rigs.
I not sure what the performance implications would be if we all started using rigs with that many bones.


Should I be running for the hills should I? :smiley:

In anycase, Yeah, standardized rigs are a good thing as soon as we solve these orientation issues and export conundrums.

This is my two cents…

Currently the Mixamo Avatar rig is pretty decent for the use in Hifi: it has everything essential to create a human shape. Not too much spine (not everyone is a Contortist) and we have all the required bones on fingers and feet (no toes) and has the eyes (albeit, strangely placed in Blender…)

The Maya Rig (or Also known as the human IK from Make Human) has extra data which we necessary do not need (additional spine bone, and Extra shoulder components.

Expressions do not seem to be much of a problem as the FST system seem, very, very flexible: The main issue is that its not very accessible as you need either the Faceshift software to fine tune the blendshapes, or abit of time and patience to manually mapping the shapes to the FS shapes, unless you have the naming convention of the shapes already matching in the 3D suite by default (Which I am fine with).

MakeHuman unfortunately, does not come with a ready out of the box Blendshapes that would map directly with faceshift: which is why I did create an improved improvised blend mapping for Makehuman prior to last fridays meeting (this is a link) which has to be pasted to the FST file. .


While I like your avatar @Judas, it may be nice to have an alternative from @Menithal too?


Ill start one from scrap as soon as there is a work list task in bidding for it :slight_smile: Maybe look towards similar disney style as meri but both male and female.

Avatar models at such a level (With face shapes and all) take a good while to make.

So far all the models in HiFi tend to be sourced else-where, such as the Mery, which is the work of Jose Manuel Garcia Alvarez and Antonio Mendez Lora over at .

I can understand the use of non- made-for HF solutions, as these sorta models take a while to make, knowing from experience: I sank over 100 hours into Fen, the Fennec base model and rigging; then again I am not a 3D artist by profession. And ofcourse, It was my first character model I made, since then I’ve ironed out methodologies a bit further.

It will probably take even longer if you want to start taking account different customization options for the avatars (such as body shape, face shape, gender etc)

For now, I think ill just mod the Blender Foundation’s Sintel Avatar and make it into a modifiable avatar, since that takes less time to do than from scrap.

Ill have a post on this some time at the end of the week.

That way we dont have to worry about the license that much as Mery currently is in a grey zone or not sure if the folks in HiFi have worked it out with the creators.


I love the idea of using the Sintel avatar it for me walks the line between the Pixar look of Meri and a more realistic human and is covered by the so we can do whatever we like with it if we credit them back which is fair enough

I like that its not too real looking so we avoid uncanny valley



that does look neat I wish that was automated nice find


I dont know why this was posted in the newsletter thing. You know if you want people to take this new virtual world seriously …but once agian just proof that this new “virtual world” is just a joke. It will NEVER be what second life is. even. Called it.


Its a generated newsletter from favorites, not handpicked stuff if you haven’t been in the forums for a while.
You can turn it off from your settings if you have already given up.




this is a great idea Iv been saying that something like this should be done