Suggestion - How about creating stable and test systems


I have found that much of the time it is very difficult to get very much done with the combination of close to zero real documentation combined with almost no communication from the builders and a constant barrage of changes. If there is real interest in a lot of useful feedback from ‘alpha testers’ it would help a great deal if the condition of a test world were to stay the same for a while and a developers world went on its way until the developers world became the test world some time later. There could then be a published notice of what to expect in the new world.

Personally, I lose interest very rapidly when I cannot do a little hifi stuff one day and then the next day I have to rebuild the servers and then spend most of my available time trying to backup and figure out what I am now doing ‘wrong’ based on no info. A lot of time for not much gain.


I can sit here 12+ hours a day if I chose to and still find it hard to keep up with this.

Here’s one problem - the reliance upon voice to transmit what little info there is. If you can manage to hear it and be right place/right time you learn things, maybe. If not - you either learn nothing, get 2nd - 3rd - nth hand information that may or may not be what was actually said. For example - there’s all this physics stuff that, yes, is at a primitive stage, but there’s zero information on it one can look at and use as a starting point to experiment or participate in its evolution. I gather it’s been talked about at some of the meetings, but, again - if you’re not there or can’t hear it you’re out of luck. Unless you can spend hours upon hours learning the source code then trying to figure out how to work with something from that direction.

It’s like voice is so blasted central to all this that it’s a sin to actually write a few words discussing important bits. And as to we just need people willing to submit documents for this that and other… well - to do so requires either understanding the code base to a point you can translate code to end user documentation or having coders willing to be interviewed to help a writer create a document.

Then you come to a more subtle, but powerful, psychological reaction many have. After spending days of intense study to finally figure something cool out… do I run to the forums and post it or keep it to self? The old saying “Knowledge is power” has many subtle meanings. Knowledge not freely shared here offers value in the same way it does in SL - if one knows how to make something that no other does - then he/she can sell that without competition for a potentially longer time vs what happens if he/she revealed. And even though selling is not currently a concern - many are here in the hopes they will sell and will know things others will not.

Some days I feel this is all a giant lab rat experiment and now the “Gods” have decided it’s time to float away to watch from above. We’ve always been lab rats - but now the population has increased and the observations of how people will cope with this take on new meanings for data mining.


I agree wholeheartedly!

My feeling is that the big underlying issue here is the idea of what I call ‘programming docs’. Explanation: In a software system something can be defined in one place and be instantly known everywhere in the system. When that idea is used with communication/documentation in the sense that something is announced in a meet up or written as a comment in some part of the source or some other obscure place the result is that the people responsible for communicating can feel that their work is done and the users have nothing usable. The solution is for the people responsible for communicating to have the intent that the users have what is necessary for the users.


I would be willing to interview coders about how things work and then translate that into user documentation. I do that in my regular job now. That is my job, actually, well…mostly.


I suspect that anyone who has the where-with-all to think about what they might package and sell here, is probably also clever enough to figure out whatever they need to on their own, if need be. I guess there is a distinction to be made between those who see VWs strictly as a means to a personal end and those who see it as a means to a greater technological and social progression. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive, however.


The term “scarcity mentality” comes to mind.
It is the same psychological force one sees on the roads when a driver will speed up dangerously, rather than let another car into the lane in front of them. It is a small mindset, a bit anti-social, actually.


Well - there’s little if any routine direct contact with the devel staff. Sometimes you can get a word or two with at a meeting, again, in voice. Or a forum post here, but, it’s a lucky day indeed if you can get much more than a token response. Some are more communicative than others, but, overall it’s pretty dismal.


Well, we all have to keep in mind that our being here doing anything at all, ultimately benefits the parent company first. Either we are cool with that, or not. But, there should be no illusions.


I think the worklist concept is G-R-E-A-T!!!

It is a way to (potentially) exponentially accelerate the development trajectory, while not being exploitative. It is a very fine idea. Whose was it?


My point basically is that if alpha testers are here to help then effort should be made to allow them to be as productive as possible. Hence the talk about docs. I would much rather spend the time that I have available actually testing the system than trying to find out how it should work.




Have you looked at Worklist yet? There’s scope for people who want to help with user documentation.


… and back to the original topic. A test system that would remain stable for a period of time (week, month) with a modicum of documentation would real help.


Just as @Ciaran_Laval pointed out, there is the worklist for the docs and I whole heartedly welcome people to use it for suggestions.

I have a testbed for people who are potential to write docs so if someone was willing to put up a suggestion - we can work to get it funded for them to actually do the job and write the document.

I am more than willing to give them an account on my testbed for documents and see the skills they have at writing and work with that. We need people who can put out documents that people need and want!

@SterlingWright if this is something that interests you, let me know and we can discuss getting this worked out!


I am really unclear how someone that is an ‘alpha’ is going to write a useful doc without knowing how the target area of hifi works. Can you explain?


And how do you justify nominating writing something about a subject that’s changing so rapidly that by the time you create a worklist item for it, manage to pick a subject worthy of being funded, write the document, have it reviewed and posted - it’s all changed and worthless.

There’s a critical difference in writing documents for things that are stable to a point of being somewhat - constant and just asking for someone - anyone to write a few lines about this is new tech A - if you want to try it - do this, that other and hope it works for you - but it’s rough and probably won’t. Even that is preferable to these whispers of rumors of hints that something is there.


Well, I certainly would not be prepared to write a document about anything at the moment. But, shortly, I ought to be able to contribute something that would be helpful to newcomers, since I have not been around long enough to forget what that is like!

I am not here looking for work. I have a job. A great job, which I love.

But, if I can help out, or if there really is a need to debrief developers with the goal of translating that into usable help documents, this I could do. I do it every day for digital systems I have never even seen for myself. It is my job.

I am only a little surprised this has not already been done.

So, there…my first contribution…suggesting opportunities to others who have been around for awhile and never considered them.

} >:^" > <-- that is my devil-kiss


Actually @morrisford there is a team that already writes docs for alpha and how stuff functions and we are ramping it up.

Everyone and everything starts somewhere.


Maybe some folk have not looked at it @Coal as it may be considered faster and easier to ask direct questions here?


To help, here’s the link to the documents:

Note: The above query is not a statement but just a possible suggestion. I do not want to be attacked for an opinion I do not have. This is simply a musing of possibility.


For alphas or by alphas? Or both? Who is this team? Where are they?