The Open and Honest Content Provider Community Dialog Thread


#1

I don’t know how many in this community I have talked with privately who have all sorts of grievances with highfidelity. Many have left and some have come back. I think one big problem is that many are not being vocal about the problems they are having and I think it is important to establish an open, honest dialogue about these things, after all we all care about this project and we all want to see it succeed.

One of the reasons many are not being vocal is because they feel as if they are not being heard and get the impression that the highfidelity team is not interested in working with content providers. Without content nobody will come to hifi. The more content there is the more people will come and the more everybody will be better off for it.

I am hoping this thread will help bridge the gap between the Highfidelity team and the content provider community. I would like to see open and honest discussion about the problems we are having and proposed solutions to these problems.

We are coming up on the 5 year mark and cryptocurrency is about to be implemented. This is going to jumpstart the economy and bring in more creators. I would hate to see them leave as so many have already. It is a very important time for this project and possibly even a make it or break it scenario.

So my hopes are the content provider community and highfidelity team can open up this dialogue and figure out what we need to do to get this thing going in high gear! Let’s make HiFi the best user experience ever. We all know virtual reality / virtual worlds will become as mainstream as cell phones are now. Let’s get together and make hifi THE biggest and best VRVW in history and the future to come. After all many of us already know it is the best. We just need to show the world what it can do to give them amazing experiences they have never seen in their lives and can find nowhere else.


High Fidelity not going out of business?
Occlusion Zone Wishlist
#2

I dont have any grievences all things in time. I have things I want but dont have the skills to make to allow me to use hifi in the way I wish
I want to sit down without looking daft. I want to stream my own music privatly on my own server using that server not using shoutcast at 16,48. I would like to text chat privatly in here.
These are the reasons that mean im usually logged into secondlife still.

Its not particuarily appealing to people without building or coding skills.
Has a doubt that even if it was there is much money to be made beyond a hobby interest.I seem to be seeing a bunch of money raising activaties for people i saw as being at the top end of secondlife creators.So im not going to quit the day job as yet.
Dont get me wrong , if I could build full time I would, but im happy to take the scraps I get thrown here and there between work


#3

Yup, I have seen this kind of thing over and over… it’s really hard to scratch out a living when the costs are so high and total market is shrinking. I think some folks make a living wage in the Unity asset store, but this would mostly be for utility scripts etc…

I think Hifi needs to tighten up what they have, as opposed to this eternal feature creep strategy. What gets me is how little polish the editing tool has… and how long it takes to upload content, many many steps, the workflow is painful.

-w


#4

I would use High Fidelity exclusively for my future projects if I could.

At the moment it’s just not suitable for my needs. I keep checking back in every day to watch the progress, in hopes that it will one day get to where I need it to be. But it’s not even remotely close to being there yet. If after 1-2 years the software still isn’t there, I’ll have to accept that I was never the intended audience, and quietly take my leave.

I already voiced what I wanted to see happen in a previous thread. None of my requests have happened yet - and of course they haven’t - even many requests from the Alphas who were here long before me haven’t happened yet.

I can live without those requested features if I could at least have peace of mind that my work is not going to be stolen. The fact that anyone can just copy the URL of my FBX and textures from the Interface log is keeping me away the most.

The other reason I don’t use High Fidelity for serious work yet is the difficulty there is in getting content into it. It’s a nightmare. I use Cycles exclusively and can’t stand Blender Render - but to get stuff into High Fidelity I have to go back to using Blender Render and re-create all of my materials in there. And then there’s the ugly lighting in High Fidelity. Sorry for being so blunt, but it is ugly. It’s harder to motivate myself to make something for this platform when I could put it into another platform and have it look much nicer automatically by default. I could actually get around this problem by using baked Cycles lighting - but that silly 2048x2048 texture limit that was implemented made that so much harder now to the point of being completely impractical.

The final main reason I don’t use HIgh Fidelity for serious work yet is actually something that isn’t even High Fidelity’s fault. It’s a problem of cost. I’m disabled. I don’t earn much income. And because of that, I can’t afford to pay for a dedicated host for High Fidelity. I have to host my sandbox locally on my own PC, on a bad internet connection. I have the most basic internet plan from my ISP with a very low upload rate. So right away, even if High Fidelity had all the features I needed it to, it would still be difficult for me to use it. I plan to sell stuff on the Marketplace to help pay for a host someday, but if my content sells like my Sansar stuff has, it still won’t be enough.

One final note- Text chat should have been implemented long before yesterday. It doesn’t need to be advanced like SL’s, I don’t need to be able to message people in other sandboxes. Just let me talk to people in my own sandbox at least! It’s a huge shame that the only open source social VR platform around is one that is automatically exclusionary for people with speech and hearing disabilities. You can’t have a truly free and open metaverse if you’re automatically excluding millions of people. Text chat has existed in online games since the beginning of the Internet, this isn’t something hard to figure out. It’s a solved problem. Why is it still missing here?

So there’s my 2 cents. Everything I said above is with total respect for the devs - I know this is beta software and it will improve over time. I’m not demanding anything - just expressing what I personally need for this platform to be viable to me. If I never get what I want, I won’t pull a Darlingnotin (LOL), I’ll just quietly disappear.
P.S. An example of my virtual world creations - to give you an idea of what I’d contribute to High Fidelity if it met my needs:


#5

very successful what I saw of you in Sansar, it has visited several times and hope one will see more of you


#6

I think they left it so developers can create their own messengers. I have created a private messenger and a domain public chat, just haven’t released them.


161c2cd8f9efcf8e


#7

And I argue that that isn’t good enough.

They need to have at least a very basic one built-in. One that isn’t cumbersome to use like all the free user-created ones I’ve tried. Here’s why:

  1. Not everyone is a programmer. I keep running into that bizarre attitude, even over on the Sansar forums; programmers seem to live in a world of their own and they forget that the majority of people don’t have the skills they do. They’ll casually say “Oh you want x feature? We technically have it already, you just have to go program and add it.” Um, buddy, YOU can do that, but most of us can’t. High Fidelity needs to be friendly to artists too, not just programmers.
  2. If it’s not built-in, you leave it up to a third-party hobbyist coder who won’t necessarily maintain the script if it breaks in the future. Text chat is a fundamental feature of online communities - it’s not a feature you should just be leaving vulnerable to periodic breakage.

For programmers who want to build their own chat, the default one could simply be disabled in the script browser. Done. Everyone gets what they want. Freedom does not and should not have to come at the cost of convenience and user-friendliness.


#8

I fully agree with that


#9

There is a text chat - chat.js - “built in” in as much as it’s included in the install as \High Fidelity\scripts\system\chat.js. However, it’s not loaded by default. It was loaded by default for a short while not so long ago.

I believe that this chat.js is the same as the “Text Chat” app in the Marketplace, by Caitlyn.


#10

I’ve taken a break 2 times because I’m sick of the complaining lol.


#11

Didn’t know that, good to know. That’s a first step. Now they just need to make it easier to enable without having to dig through directories (or ideally, they would just have it enabled by default). A new user is not going to know it’s hidden in there, much less where to look.

This chat works pretty well, much better than the last one I tried. The last one I used would always pop up an annoying dialog box when you started Interface, to ask you your name, and sometimes the box would glitch and become un-interactive and uncloseable. But this one doesn’t do that. I’d be happy with this chat as is, honestly. Just needs to be easier to find and enable. :slightly_smiling_face:


#12

We should be more like sansar and move all the users to discord .once a week they log in to the actual sansar say how terrific it is then go back to discord .


#13

You forgot to plug the HiFi Discord @Judas


#14

Does it have one? News to me
Maybe none of us actually want vr and would really just prefer a nice text only chatroom


#15

This post is really long so I have written my key points in bold for anyone who wants the cliff notes version.

I keep hearing from everybody how great of an idea it is to have default scripts for this or that, but I disagree. I think it is best to think of HiFi interface more along the lines of a web browser than a Second Life viewer.

HiFi works just like the web and the interface IS a browser (A 3D virtual reality browser for a 3D virtual reality HiFi ‘web’). Personally I would find it very annoying if google chrome came with a bunch of chrome extensions activated by default that I had to figure out how to uninstall (especially if it were my first time using it). On the other hand I actively use chrome extensions A LOT.

I totally agree with you though, the way scripts are loaded needs to be completely revamped into something more user-friendly than a drop down dialog to open a file somewhere. Maybe something that more closely resembles an app store, because technically scripts ARE apps (although more like browser extensions). I think something along the lines of how google chrome handles extensions would be appropriate for scripts in the HiFi interface (I really wish they would call it a browser instead of ‘interface’).

However the biggest consideration to make (and probably the biggest thing that separates HiFi from both Sansar and Second Life) is the fact that control over the user experience rests completely on the domain the user is currently in. They have complete control over the users scripts and avatar. I have demonstrated this in the past in my own domain. When users came in all their scripts were disabled and replaced with server-side scripts they could not deactivate and their avatars were turned into goblins. I believe this is how pretty much every domain in HiFi will end up, especially when we start getting trolls, griefers and hackers. What we are seeing now is really just a bunch of vanilla domains with a bare minimum of domain scripts running. This will change as people start developing script suites for domains so that domain operators can offer services to their visitors. HiFi right now reminds me of a VR version of the internet in the 1990s where most web pages were just text, a few pictures and maybe a text field for input.

I would argue it’s a bad idea to have ANY default interface scripts. Many domains will end up disabling all scripts on users who visit them, in favor of forcing their own server-side scripts. Upon leaving these domains they will no longer have running scripts and will have to figure out how to get them all back. It is probably better for users to get used to NOT having a default set of scripts running all the time.

What I propose is a tutorial that shows users that scripts are situational and can (and most definitely will) change from time to time and place to place so they don’t come in to HiFi thinking it is something like Second Life. It is of no benefit at all for a user to get comfortable with a default set of tools that they did not customize for their own use.

One other point that has been made by the HiFi team already is that HiFi is designed for VR and voice chat. Pigeonholing users from the very beginning with apps that forces them to type presents HiFi as a 2D desktop application, which it is not. Sure, many users won’t be using VR gear, but many will be. Many users won’t be comfortable with voice chat, but many will be. At this point nobody really knows how to handle this.

I understand most people who aren’t software developers and haven’t seen HiFi code only have their past experiences to draw from when it comes to Virtual Worlds and aren’t completely aware of what HiFi is capable of doing or how it is designed (I struggled with this for a long time too!). Since there is not a lot of content in HiFi to demonstrate this yet and it’s such a different animal than anything ever done before it is understandable that people will come in expecting some familiarity with other virtual worlds and have expectations based on this familiarity especially at this early stage where nothing is really set in stone.

The fact is HiFi is so different from anything we have ever seen, even the biggest visionaries among us are still trying to figure out the best ways to do everything. It is uncharted territory and for the foreseeable future just trial and error. The old ways are not going to work anymore and we need to come up with new standards for pretty much everything. I think it is really unfair and unrealistic for everyone to expect a polished experience when something like this has never even existed before. It is probably most unfair to expect all this from the HiFi team when it is really up to ourselves as users and content providers to figure out how to best approach these things. Nobody screams at the google chrome or internet explorer developer teams about bad web page design. It’s the same deal here. We should instead be offering suggestions to the HiFi team about the basic functions we need to implement things in our domains and the HiFi team should be carefully considering these things.

*edited 10 times! Lol. I’m really not a very good writer.


#16

Is this a positive thing? not sure…


#17

I think it will be a positive thing.
But you must make die the “SL user” inside of you to see it. :wink:

Things can’t always work the same in VR… Even if you would like.


#18

damn i hate it when i agree with @Cracker.Hax


#19

I hate it even worse when we don’t agree! :smiley:


#20

This is my typical approach. Nice post. Well put.