(virtual) money and high fidelity ? a silent dark corner


Yes, it’s soemthing that start to spin around in my mind now SanSar is getting closer and High Fidelity want to go more public.

Is there already plans for money system ?
How can people buy and sell things without money ?
It’s a very silent corner, but important one to.

Mabye it’s all secret until later this year ?
Or things get implemented later next year ?
But no money makes it less intressting for content creators.


Well, there somewhat is money in HiFi: https://metaverse.highfidelity.com/user/wallet
Last time I’ve heard something about currency in HiFi it worked like Bitcoin. You would connect your server to someone’s domain and render stuff for it, and receive chriscoins in exchange.


The wallet , wow thats from early 2015 i think. Yes i know that. After that You can hear a pin drop on the floor.


I’ve actually been very busy in the crypto space for the last couple of months. Whilst I’m still extremely new to it all, I do feel qualified in saying the following:

Given the number of companies who are launching / have launched blockchain based asset distribution platforms at the moment, there is probably a good argument for waiting to see what’s up and coming.

Most of the companies I’ve checked out have some excellent ideas for asset storage and distribution, most commonly tied into their own blockchain based currency. There are, however, many different and varied approaches. The one’s I’m keeping an eye on currently are:

https://lisk.io/ (JavaScript based, uses sidechains to minimise blockchain bloat)
https://storj.io/ (good all rounder, already up and running)
https://decent.ch/ (very early days, but promising)
https://sia.tech/ (nicely uncomplicated)

I don’t know if HiFi are still planning their own currency / blockchain / ICO / asset storage and distribution platform, but again, if they are, it may be worth waiting just a little longer to see which companies ideas out of the current crop bubble up to the top. It’s a very competitive space, and if HiFi are to build their own solution from the ground up (as seems to be the way with HiFi), then they will need to find some specialised, talented and experienced developers if they are to compete.

That said, users getting paid for user generated content is the lifeblood of virtual worlds, so for the good of HiFi, the sooner a decision is made, the better!

  • davedub


Curious if we can exchange money like you do with paypal etc.
And not with the hassle Linden Lab have that the require ID information before the release the $ to your paypal account.

Just hope it’s going to be much more easy for people to get virtual money. and also to transfer it back to your bank.


If you expect to convert virtual coinage to fiat currency, that is a tax event and there are strict requirements in various countries to track those transactions and to determine exactly who is the recipient. So, yes, you will need to provide strong ID information.


The whole “applicable law” sounds a bit fuzzy. Well the have the info, minus details on the card that are blacked out and advise to not give out to companies by the coverment.

Mabye better system is some anoymous paypal payment system, seems paypal have a system that not send all user info to the seller. . Then you have all the above problems from LL not.


I hope with high fidelity you can pay with the virtual currency , placenames, groups, lists and what ever more comes. Same as you can in SL.

Because send money back to your bank is a big drama in secondlife.
You send the correct document it’s not good you send it corrected and then the other is not good. I think the not know how europe works in the USA.


This is difficult matter.
People not like to give there adres info to other people.
But the construction how LL works seems so complex to.
Important is that more users can buy a virtual currency, something the not can anymore with SL because the life in the wrong country or not have paypal etc.
And only a cash-in option is not going to work for creators i think.

Lots to think about.

Another thing, High Fidelity and Currency need to keep separated.
Because everything is decentralized there different rules, and high fidelity already did say in some way we do not ban people, The domain owners need to decide by them self. That a good statement. But nNot going to combine when you als manage the virtual currency like Line Lab is doing.

I see High Fidelity more as the ICANN for internet. but then for virtual worlds. The only manage also some other settings like usernames and groups or lists. The not want more responsibilities so far i understand. This idea create the most freedom platform.

But how do you combine that with Currency ?


The combination of anonymity and decentralized currency yields a highly toxic stew. At some point someone is going to cheat, someone is going to abscond with the pile of currency. And, they will be totally protected by the anonymity. If that happens just once, the trust in low-risk daily transactions vaporizes, the virtual economy crashes. I personally do not look forward to that ugly RL intrusion into virtual life.


Yup, i figured that out. But what’s the best solution then ?

Mabye 2 options ?

  • One where people can buy easy virtual money, but no cash-out option. Wallet cards ?
  • And some option where you can cash-out. Or better payments are straigth from user to user ?


I’m curious, how do things like the App Store/Google Play Store, which use ‘real’ normal money work? Why is a ‘virtual world currency’ needed?

Microsoft used to have MS Points or something for the stores on Xbox, Zune etc. Only later, they got rid of them and started using real money.

It adds friction to the experience of buying content on the Marketplace if you had to convert your real money into ‘Credits’ or whatever to buy anything. If it’s something automated, like I have no ‘credits’ in HiFi wallet but wanna buy something worth 500C which = £5, so when I click buy it just debits me £5 kinda like PayPal, what is the point.
All that does is introduce a headache for new users who see something like ‘500 Credits’ then wonder what that precisely means. I mean it’s never clearly explained, to new users, what the precise exchange rate or correlation the amount of Linden Dollars has to ‘real money’.

I don’t know. It’s kinda a romantic ideal, that we pioneers of a new virtual universe could create a new virtual currency which would mainstreamify the whole blockchain cryptocurrency thing and become ubiquitous along with HiFi, but eeh.
Maybe I’m just old fashioned?

The App Store model kinda works for the HiFi Marketplace though, and the App Store doesn’t use AppleCoins or something.


I think the (yucky name) app store is good example.
But i think app store also covers the privacy i tried to explain earlyer.

I think paying in real currency is the only right way.
But users, including me. do not want t give with every payment there complete home adress what happens with most pay pal payments.

So how you go work with RL money, and hide real life home adresses.
I think google is just extra layer that cash-in from user A. and then pay The user B. without giving adress etc. Sellers only need to know the user name.

But with the extra layer, you get quick the extra work you need to do as company because law etc. see Linden Lab.

Then you still have the problem that you need wider amount of payment so more countries can buy things.


It is to avoid a myriad of tax events. If is to differentiate all of the in-world/game transactions that are pure virtual “play money”, hence not taxed, from the cash it into real-money transactions that are taxed. This is the same principle as in casinos. You are not taxed for all the temporary gains in chips while playing in the casino. You are taxed when you convert your extra chips back to real currency.


In other words, already did say it. Cash-in. try to create some income. but not cash-out


Yes, that is the “Snow Crash” approach. In that fictive VR world, there was never any connection between real-world transactions and in-world transactions (at least none governments could see). They were two completely separate economies. The in-world transactions never generated real-world tax events. This is the definition of pure virtual currency.


I made a working HiFi wallet that can hold bitcoin, litecoin or dogecoin.

Still in development though. Using testnets right now. You can read more in my work log.

The name of the project has changed though… It is now called Thrall. Thrall.io is currently in development.


Zcash is offering a different toss of the coin.

What is Zcash?

If Bitcoin is like http for money, Zcash is https. Zcash offers total payment confidentiality, while still maintaining a decentralized network using a public blockchain. Unlike Bitcoin, Zcash transactions can be shielded to hide the sender, recipient, and value of all transactions on the blockchain. Only those with the correct view key can see the contents. Users have complete control and can opt-in to provide others with their view key at their discretion. Zcash transactions do not depend on the cooperation of other parties.

Certainly Hi Fidelity needs a safe coin to toss around, more so for those just passing the time :wink:


Well if it turns out to be all it says it is maybe Thrall will support Zcash as well.


I guess I don’t see why you would want to go from, say, dollars to Bitcoin just to use them to buy an in-world currency. Let alone use Bitcoin to directly buy something that may cost a fraction of a penny.

I believe the best option is exactly the model adopted by Second Life: An independent, propriety currency for HiFi with a market-determined exchange rate and the option to exchange it with any currency for which there are traders.

One benefit was already mentioned: you can avoid paying taxes on in-world transactions by leaving tax authorities with the sense that the only taxable sales and income happen when cashing in or out.

One benefit is making it possible for large numbers of people to earn in-world money without ever spending any real money or even providing strong evidence of their real-world identities to HiFi. This is very common in SL.

One benefit is that HiFi can opt to tax transactions as a way to raise income to cover its costs without having to directly collect payments each time.

The main benefit of having a single, proprietary currency for HiFi is that it can provide a friction-free way to do transactions in-world and offload the pain associated with other currencies to the rarer task of exchanging it, thus making it easy to foster large volumes of small-scale transactions.