VRChat thoughts


#21

I’m looking at the work I’m wanting to do with HiFi long term. None of my projects will be money makers short term. I have tons of clients in my real life work - that will support my adventures in HiFi. I love the Vision of HiFi - and I’m patient. Some of the technology projects I’ve tackled over the years have taken many years to implement…many panned out, some didn’t.

Judas - I hear what you’re saying and btw love the work you’ve done that I’ve seen. But, I’m interested and some of my clients are interested in experimenting and exploring early and love the idea of being in there now to start seeing what’s possible for them. I am one of those older, very early explorers that in the 1980’s set up and ran a holography company, then laser entertainment company, then decades of work in the technology field, etc. …discovered VR in the 1990’s and now I’m coming around again to see what’s possible with HiFi and other social VR worlds with my improved skill set and professional network.

I love the HF platform and feel the most comfortable here. But as I’ve said (I think) in other posts - it’s similar to finding myself in a Walt Disney parking lot (I used to live across the street from their Orlando, FL one) - as Disney was in its early stages of being built and made a fuss about Disney not being fully operational there…yet.


#22

After have been on VRC a few time, and after have seen this kind of video (https://youtu.be/eix7fLsS058)
This is definitely an interesting laboratory for what could happen in HF.
They have the same “too complex” avatar flow which leads most of the people to used the same avatars (with 7000 concurrent users, this means hundred of each) We feel rapidly depersonalized in such a world.
I think that one basic thing of the social interaction is tied to the fact that we have a specific identity face to other people and that we want to express it. (It’s a need)
We didn’t see that depersonalization so marked when we arrived in Second Life. (Sorry, there is not too much other possible comparation, it has been a laboratary too) At least each newbe had their very ugly but personalized first avatar.
In VRC, I think the people involvement might fade rapidly if they feel as insignificant as the 99 other Mickey Mouse in the place. But VRC is right now fed by a good amount of new discoverers, so it won’t fade in number of participants, but it might in longevity of specific users to stay interested.

Also, I don’t know how much people will be willing to invest time to craft an avatar if it’s to share the place a majority of these prefab avatar (because the flow is too complex for most of them)

As I said, this is still under the microscope and who knows how this will goes in the next months.

My feeling is that the custom avatar, with an easy flow (at least close of what we have in many online games / world) would make a big difference in HF.
HF need at least one Avatar provider to exist. Maybe a separated company should be created just for this, I don’t know. (It could be profitable by the way)
Any news from Ready Room ?

I have no plan to return in VRC as it is now, outside that to keep myself informed of what happen there. HF is still the nearest of my expectations.


#23

It s works.
------
Yesterday I have visit the first time VRChat. There “Tablet” to set the settings is good.


#24

Yeah, I like also the VR user interface - for me, there is no break of immersivity, if a menu or something pop up in world. VRChat’s is larger, faster, much more useable as our tablet and it’s restrictions.


#25

I agree, it works well.
The double size is a gòod thing. Small for the menu and large for the application.

I guess it was the idea with the rotation in create mode in HF. Maybe we sould go further and open a large and wide screen when we open an app. Could be even to have the size specify by the script itself.


#26

and…

quote from: https://www.vrchat.net/developer
"Scripting support is still limited, for security reasons."

This is where High Fidelity has the edge. Bottom-line. Those of us that do associate as ‘engineers’ can and will provide the tools but we’re waiting on certain securities like a stable market to be in place. I have a subscription-based setup going through user testing being conducted Q1 and when it’s ready, I’m sure we’ll be able to bring about new users more willing to try things here.

Just thought I’d share. To get the users, it has to be easy. This place (hifi) is built for engineers to then make it easy for the masses.

…we’re getting there…


#27

When you say Ready Room is working - about 3 weeks ago I could only get it to work with HiFi not VRChat. And it was very clunky still on an Oculus Rift. I think in it’s various early stages it only worked with HTC Vive. What HMD were you using? Did it work for both worlds? And I noticed my HiFi Avatar I couldn’t bookmark for HiFi or save it for future use. Could be user error on my part. Next time I use it - I can ask around on how to bookmark it and have it stay around (I know how to bookmark avatars).


#28

I get that the race is long and hifi to quote starwars

Just a bigger pool of people getting involved, drives creativity and pushes everything forward


#29

Hi on the Vive. I have test it only on HiFi so far :robot:


#30

I tried it out earlier. The main thing that i noticed was how intuitive it was. HiFi’s UI could use an overhaul or some tweaking. Perhaps there should be two modes, Simple (Default) and Advanced. Having it bundled together confuses people. There should be separate panels for general users and developers (perhaps there is, but i can’t remember).

Second thing i noticed were all the imported avatars. There were dozens to choose from. In fact, there’s so many, that multiple rooms (instances) are created just for avatar selection. In my opinion, HiFi’s marketplace probably hindered it’s growth, due to copyright issues. Unity was a major factor here too. The process isn’t as difficult for people who already use Unity to import stuff.

Lastly, it was very easy to create multiple instances of a world over there. You can instantiate one, then make it public or private. Very easy for average users who don’t know how to import or tinker around with Unity, Blender, or Maya. In HiFi, you have to be knowledgeable about server-side configurations. The learning curve is extremely high for the average user.

As noted above by others, HiFi has an advantage here with scripting, chat, etc.

TLDR: streamline the avatar creation/import process and redesign the UI.


#31

I know this is still a big topic of conversation… all these comments are great but I think they are missing the main factor at this early stage.

If you could point to a number of people who are trying Hifi vs. VrChat even one single time this would be the more telling statistic.

If we are indeed getting the same ‘first time’ numbers as VRchat and still not seeing inworld adoption taking hold, then it’s time to look at what features we don’t have or what people don’t like and improve it.

VRChat is very clear in what you are supposed to do there – CHAT— in VR. They are not pretending to be anything other than a glorified chat room. The developer stream is a far second in terms of who they are trying to appeal to. There is no illusion that users will need to create their own models, or even build anything at all.

Right from the start highfidelity has a branding and identity problem… Do a search for highfidelity … up until very recently the John Cusak movie High fidelity was top - of - google…

So the only way to find Highfidelity and find out what it does, is by someone telling you about it. The name and branding is not effective and actually misleading as the world doesn’t really look like it’s a higher fidelity than anywhere else, and it’s a phrase used mostly to refer to audio equipment anyway.

So it’s easy to point out problems but what about solutions?

  1. Hire a marketing/branding manager who knows how to drive these changes,
  2. Call it HiChat or HifiVR or ??? the name needs to describe what the product is
  3. Stop adding complex features that no one uses, dump all the money into a marketing plan
  4. Look for better affiliated relationships with industry leaders… There are so many companies now working on VR, why don’t we see at least some interest in Hifi?
  5. Try some things … I see very little in the way of marketing anything for Hifi.

If you have done all these things and still see low numbers, then you can look to the platform/feature set to make enhancements, but if the marketing and customer research hasn’t been done there is no way to tell if any actual software development will help.

Hope @philip , @Caitlyn will read this , we all want the same thing, for Hifi to be a success…

thanks,

-W


#32

So true.
Using an existing word for a brand is a good way to be lost on the web… 2 existing words is definitely a the good way to never been found.
Second Life has the same issue by the way. Try to get the last news about it, you will get lot of silly thing about celebrities :wink:

Migrate the brand name to a unique and specific word before exit the Beta phase could be a thing to do. Some larger company did that before with success.


Just to give you an example… here the search on Steam spy:
https://steamspy.com/search.php?s=High+Fidelity
34 records found (one of them is High Fidelity)

https://steamspy.com/search.php?s=vrchat
1 record found


#33

It felt a bit weird at first and I had to google „High Fidelity VR“ in order to find it…
But I actually like the name very much!
It‘s the perfect description for the perfect platform.
In the end, when each of the contenders has their own cool building-, market-, avatar-, whatever-system, the one platform is gonna win the race which feels most comfortable to be in VR in - i.e. which has the Highest Fidelity.
And High Fidelty shines in physics & making you physically feel good in VR!
So why not use this USP?

& imho we still could use some more purely social events (which are attractive even to non-coders/builders) like the wonderful ThaPhlash Shows :purple_heart::sunglasses:


#34

VRChat has been a crazy whirlwind recently and I thought I should share a few thoughts. First, I don’t think any of the devs or longtime core users saw the streamer explosion coming. The talking points at the last town hall prior to the explosion were mostly around giving more power to creators through “Playmaker” in Unity so there would be a path for scripting and making better games/experiences. The community creators were beating the scripting drum for a long time and all of us are still anxiously awaiting playmaker.

The ludicrous user increase has been fun to see but it has also been a tremendous distraction. I miss the days when you could log on and know virtually everyone who was on. Now everyone is taking evasive maneuvers around all the Knuckles and other memes that are pervasive in the public spaces. Most of the long time users hang out in private instances insulated from the insanity.

So what does the streamer user infusion mean for the future of VRC? There is a lot of bad that comes in from the viral nature of some of the humor but there is an upside for VR when all of these desktop users getting exposed to other users in VR. I can’t stress enough how important it is for VR adoption having desktop and VR users interacting together. I don’t have any hard numbers but I am constantly seeing posts from those wanting VR or purchasing VR based on what they’ve seen others do in VRC.

My hope is that streamers continue to stream and VRC stays popular for those who look for that kind of fun. I also hope that VRC rethinks the way that users initially interface with the app. It doesn’t make sense anymore for all users to be plopped down together in the same Hub. Users now need a soft entry into VRC and the ability to filter the kind of experience they are looking to have. There should be something for everyone and a road to those experiences whether that is a meme, a tech discussion, a game or even something educational. I want VRC to be lots of things to lots of different people.

I also want there to be other Social VR app options and would very much like to see Hifi and others take on a flood of users as well. Long term, portability would be fantastic. I want to be able to be in VRC and walk through a virtual door that will take me to HiFi. Walls need to come down and barriers removed from virtual experiences. At the very least it will be fun to see how all this continually unfolds.


#35

Thanks for these latest thoughts, @Naticus Good stuff. Keep the thoughts coming, you guys. What we’re hearing/thinking so far:

Let’s make lots of fun avatars easy to find and also easy to upload/create. We’re working on multiple fronts on this, right now!

Improve desktop & general 2D support, across the board. We’re looking/working here as well.

As I’ve said previously - If a good number of people hang around and keep having fun after that first visit to VRChat, it’s a win for everyone and could mean that we get this party started earlier than we had all thought.


#36

I highlight this as it’s one of the things that keeps me from introducing business folks to the VRChat platform (that are exploring ways to create a beachhead in Social VR Worlds). These folks are freaked out by the Knuckles- and other groups chasing them/hitting them over the head with things as they enter through the Hub. The idea I could take new people directly to places they won’t get harassed (with filtering or whatever) will be a very important development for VRChat.


#37

Yep, we agree. The ‘real’ future for 1B+ generalized VR has several different usage categories (Work, School, Play), and yeah those people probably don’t want to all be crammed into the same entry point. We’re working on that too.


#38

might be nice to have a choice of good or evil
one pill takes u to a moderated welcome area
the other to the unmoderated one

be interesting to see which way people jump



#39

@judas - so many wise thoughts. I loved that TED talk on starting a movement. Great.


#40

Here’s an interesting thing to learn from the VRC rapid growth…