We are thinking about how to improve the edit entities tools and would love your input


#1

Hi All,

We are about to start working on improving the current edit entities functionality and would love your feedback.

  • How would you like the default edit entities to work?
  • What about the current edit entities do you like or dislike?
  • How would you edit entities with a mouse and keyboard?
  • How would you edit entities with a HMD device?
  • How would you edit entities using a hand controller?

Chris


#2

Hey @chris,

  • I would like to have a better view on what I’m doing, some more visual indicators. Also some kind of snap to grid mode would be nice.

  • Editing with an HMD and the hydra’s feels pretty good already, but for editing the properties we would have to have a better integrated windowing system. One that could be rendered in both eyes.

  • I’m looking forward to try editing entities with the leap mounted to the Oculus.

What do you guys think? @Judas @Richardus ?


#3

Right now, and i possible add more later to this same post…

Some indicator that you know wich way X,Y, Z is would be nice.
well technical X and Z is enough, you never know wich way to move it in edit properties.

Controllers like the hydra and leap motion make building more easy i think because the have 3d view. mouse is harder tou have only 2 axis. in this case it would be very nice to have support for the 3dfx space navigator. https://worklist.net/20069 That would make building also more easy up/down = y etc. With the mouse its hard to move entitiy inworld, or never figured out the rigth way, coordinates work better with mouse.

The 3dfx is the only really 3D controller/mouse i have. and its not supported.


-What @judas is saying, im missing option to copy one entity so i have more copy’s with same settings, especially with the collision testing it would be very handy to have.

-@Judas, thats the same problem i have ,i need to fiddly and fly around to get , no to try to get it placed right. So arrows that you can grab like blender is haveing makes moveing at least less a hassle, and it can be combined with the needed axis indication.

-The entity list is something good to, i think i still have maby some very tiny entity.

-Other thing what @judas is saying, keep the entity properties window open so you can adjust settings without closeing it every time. simple solution, instead the Ok buttonin entity properties add update button, so you can update settings without closeing entity properties


I think that the entity properties editor need a makeover. What you think of splitting the long list we have now on 1 page, into different tabs. Need to admit that im not sure if thats the good way to. But filles now like you need to scroll very much. Better ideas welcome.

Lock on axis, zo you can lock the movement only to x,y,z in combination with mouse it makes moveing more easy i think. but that option is anyway good.


#4

I would like a duplicate shift+D way to copy models
I would like to be-able to lock on to an entity so once its selected i can move around change it before releasing it from control so i don’t loose the thing i’m working on.
I would also like to be-able to select entaties in my domain from a list so when @thoys griefs me i can remove his items from a list rather than searching the domain for them individually.
I dislike having to move around an object to move it this way or that i would much prefer a gimble with arrows .

hmd I think that should have some on rails approach or editing a model in space could easily feel like sewing with chopsticks.
I like the idea of editing this way but tried the leap demo where you have to place blocks on little robots heads. Its not a good experience. you could in time learn to do it but the idea with hifi is were getting away from the “its like learning to play a piano” Phil talked about.
vr control needs to be intuitive and really simple or people will give up on it really quickly.

If the models entaties or whatever felt like they were sliding along a notched track.we would have maybe less absolute control but it may be a little more user friendly.

Fantasy concept time What if you could edit things in world using hand signals like you would give to a reversing driver back a bit left a bit

googled and found these http://masonryworldsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/signal.png


#5

The problem I have most is not knowing where the bloody hell the entity is and then discovering I’ve created two or three of them. They end up in some odd places in terms of viewing on initial creation.

The properties screen appearing on creation might be handy there because if you can see on the properties panel that entity.new is at x,y,z locating it should be easier.

Some visual clues would be handy, especially when you click on things or there’s an error, such as model can’t be created because it would be out of bounds being highlighted somehow.

I think a grid will be a necessity in the long term, maybe even some viewports. However this is from a mouse based perspective, some of that is going to get in the way if you’re looking to create by touch.


#6

The best way to build with oculus would be if you can track the hand with 3d camera and use a feedback wand to know when you hold it. but thats right now not possible.

The problem with lots of things right now, we dont have hardware with feedback response. so how do you know when you hold some entity, door, steer in your hands ?


#7

A cross between / amalgamation of Second Life prim editing and MakeVR: http://www.engineeringtv.com/video/Demonstration-of-3D-Modeling-wi

Different methods for different devices and times.


#8

That’s very impressive.

I’m waiting for us to be able to control screens in the fashion they do in Minority Report. UltraHaptics has been described as being in that style

http://big.cs.bris.ac.uk/projects/ultrahaptics

However it’s early days still.


#9

I agree with some of these suggestions and have some of my own, mostly

The properties popup should stay up until it is dismissed (needs apply and ok buttons),
The properties popup should open on entity creation,
Global X/Y/Z needs to be visible when object is selected,
The ability to duplicate an object easily.
The ability to enter co-ord values into a window to move things with precision,
Ability to lock xyz and resize overall by a number factor instead of doing width separate from height and length.
The ability to add a name of some kind (even if its not unique) to every entity,
The ability to see a list of all entities on ones own domain, this list might include the objects name, ID and location, grouped by owner/creator. (The beginnings of a domain inventory system).
Objects should be able to be deleted from the list, by domain admins
Creator (owner) tagged to every entity created (the beginnings of a permission system),
DropDown indicators that trigger for errors such as, out of bounds, no permissions, cant find texture etc.

And if I could afford some other hardware I would comment about that.

will update this list if I think of anything else.

@chris I like the long list, its all just there, no confusion nothing hidden. As soon as you start putting things into categories and trying to make it easier for people, it goes the other way sometimes as people dont find things in places they expect to find them and it actually gets harder until we learn to play this piano.
At this early stage I suggest keeping the long list with scrolling overflow until it gets too big and we have a better idea of how we want this properties window to appear. The fact that we have a properties window is a huge advantage over what we have had. More energy needs to be put into improved handling of the models position and size.

Although this thinking does not extend to the model library, that will get stupid long before much later and be to big to troll thru, that will need broad categories (terrain, vegetation, vehicles, buildings, animals, humanoid, etc. eventually)

I think its a very good idea to keep things as generic as possible, fully featured and polished but without the colored lights and fancy packaging, move away from the game feel and into the professional utility feel.
This will give more time now to developing the core, and more space later for people to develop “Apps” , this is an open source project and people will soon be developing their own style interface and add-ons to the existing interface, so “content management” and “what I see” may become more flexible as users mod this stuff themselves and start creating specific packages for specific uses.

(that will be 2 cents thank you)


#10

As well as intuitive models by “look” in various ways to get things as you want them, I would like to see a good properties panel maintained to akllow for exact and “by the numbers” editing.


#11

@Judas checkout the new menu option in “editmodels.js” Edit->Model List , it lists all the entities and you can delete, edit or teleport to them.


#12

@thoys , thats improvement. already found a spaceship that where lost. But i think if you have many mesh objects that you can better use a list box to place all models in. Apply button would be good to, now you need to reopen it everytime.

But still big improvment.


#13

@Thoys aha exactly like that awesome. That’s actually really good great way to get to a models properties .


#14

Yeah thats what we’re talking about, exactly. Wish I had thought of that. Teleport, fastest way to find where it is.

Now we just need a better model handling tool.


#15

Option to give entity a name.

Vector / rotation copy, means you can copy with one click the <x,y,z> coordinates and paste it as example bax on other entity. Same for rotations.


#16

After playing with the current system I would like to add.

Ability to offset the registration point to enable orbit action on angular velocity.
Alpha properties to the color.


#17

Some edit box where you can add (by script) parameters on entity. in Seconddlife the description field get used for that. Still think its usefull for hifi to.


#18

I start to like or love the edit entities editor. at least the inworld functionality.
But there’s one thing am missing, and thats to straff the camera to the left or right without rotating it.


#19

and I used to be able to straff vertically, as well, in first-person, and now I get a rotated up-down view. This just changed a few updates ago, I believe.
Don’t like.


#20

support for the 3dfx space navigator. https://worklist.net/20069 That would make building also more easy up/down = y etc. With the mouse its hard to move entitiy inworld, or never figured out the rigth way

votes up