Yeah, that... again



Still a bit iffy about Will Burns actively promoting Dual Universe,

Especially with such a fucking exorbant entry fee to a pre-alpha

with a frigging NDA…

Who in their right mind, would pay for such… Oh wait, the same whales who shill out thousands for Star Citizen. and their clans they are apart of, And this is the competing product to it… Recently CGI has been dropping the ball with their project so theres been some transfer… although… I am seeing a pattern here:

They seem to be going in the same route as SC, being already nearly a year late with its Alpha build that was supposed to come out in Early 2017 (although yeah, kickstarter, stuff will delayed, can understand that (looking at your pimax)) . BUT They are also doing some very agressive adverticement in quite a few of my social media, be it through shill accounts or other official methods. So I will always remain skeptical>

Specially with what I call “Whale bait” games, Games with Grand Promises with exorbant entry fees. Its been popular since Kickstarter first got started.

Basically: Make big promises, and slap a large entry fee to try it.
users interested will buy in and get invested into the game monetarily, they will shill it for you because they put so much cash into it. Then create more stuff that you sell to those users, to make the users even more invested, rinse, and repeat. Suddenly you form a cult with diehard fans around the subject, even if the game it self is not complete. Then you can delay the game as loong as you want… And eventualyl with so much transactions being made, the game it self wont be so great because you have such an imbalance when the game actually starts; The game economy will tank and its just gonna be a shitshow since the creators dont focus in the right things.

I know some who dumped over few thousand dollars on SC.

Psychology 101.

… In short:
I dont trust anything until its been released at an affordable price nowdays, Ive been burned that hard by SC having almost lost a thousand bucks on that same mentality. (got it refunded though, but they have since closed refunds)

Wagner, the Author of the article is pretty much spot on though: Gamers are not gonna care about SocialVR / Metaverses without gaming or other things to do other than Socializing. For them, its Game first prior to Social stuff. Thats where the money is.

SL / High Fidelity / Sansar / Sinespace / Soleumspace are not Games foremost, they are Social Spaces; which is why they always pale in comparisons to games; as simply put, social platforms do not attract users who are not looking for such spaces.


not wanting to repeat myself
vr vw are all just chatrooms with shiny bits
if people cant communicate in them they wont use them
this forum gets more users than hifi
and what did it cost?


I don’t too much care about what this " expert " thinks. But clearly, the question of the contiguous world is a topic that is going to be recurrent.

There is certainly a demand for such an option for different reasons. Certainly, people like this. But it could be also useful in various use cases.

That said, we can always dream a little about what it could be and the advantages of this.

If one day there is an intention to go in that direction I imagine that it could be “optional”.

I would hope that the “à la Second Life” model would be avoided. I mean something like this:


We clearly saw the problem with that model. The best example of this, is certainly the insane quantity of servers it needs to make a decent size of a navigable ocean between some islands. (All that for a relatively low density of activity. Imagine in outer space!)

Instead, maybe it could be something like a Domain Hierarchy (domains that can be plug to a parent domain, recursively), a bit like this:


Where Domains could be linked to another domain (Parent-Domain).

To do this, I think it would need to make the size of the domains as configurable.

By doing this, you could nest many domains inside a larger one. So with this, you could have an inter-domain space that is supported by the parent-domain. Then you could go in that inter-domain space with your avatar, traveling from a domain to another one, walking and talking with your friend during the trip.

Domain versus Density.

In such a Domain Hierarchy system, the configurable domain size would become very important.
Ex: Imagine you want to put a virtual “Madison Square Garden” inside a crowdy Virtual City (that is a domain). And let say you want to host large events in your virtual “Madison Square Garden”. It could be good to have it running on its own server nested in your crowdy Virtual City. It would be a bit problematic if you would be forced to have your 200m X 200m virtual “Madison Square Garden” stuck on a 32km X 32km land in the middle of your crowdy Virtual City.

To retake the example of the navigable ocean between some islands, with a Domain Hierarchy model, you could have a large ocean on a domain, with many nested island domains. That would be a lot more optimal than a hundred side by side domains.

But well… that’s just a dream :wink:


It feels a bit click baity, since “High Fidelity” only shows up 2 times in the article (ignoring the title, side bar, and comment). That and comparing it to non-VR games in the conclusion is very misleading.

However, the criticism regarding the stress tests bringing in people only really once a month and the end result only bringing a small number of people back for curiosity does relate heavily to the same comparison to Sansar with its Ready Player One promo.

That being said, with the initial success I’ve seen with the Zombies domain, it does seem that interaction is the key that can help with High FIdelity. If there was ever a way to restore the bowling alley in a safe manner, it would fit TheSpot very well.


It really does feel like Click bait yeah.


I think mass acceptance will be a long road. Recroom has a lot of things to make the treshold for new users very low. I just entered there and they have a lot of features Hifi is striving to get for new users. They got:
-fun simple games,
-easy way of creating own rooms (with custom prim type designing)
-visual style programming with chips to give creations gamelogic
-avatar customisation (albeit very simple)
-no need to run servers of your own
-simple easy to use UI
-Handshake to be friends(!)
and probably more I did not think of.

If you see the charts Recroom has more players than hifi (on steam) it is by no means exploding, but rather stable. In order to progress Hifi needs to stress their selling points which is in my opinion: creative freedom, scalabilty, and commerce. Main problem is not the tools we have but users finding ways to use the platform to interest other users. (although the tools can be improved to make it easier)

My main point is: worthwhile creation is not easy and creators only will invest a lot of time if they will gain something from it (mostly status: respect and/or money) If Hifi wants a billion people in Hifi most of them will have to buy creations instead of making them themselves. So focus on the backbone, marketplace, and creation pipelines. If you would agree that most forms of creations can be expressed in VR (Architecture, Fashion, Theater, Music, Film, Radio, Poetry, Painting, Sculptures) and If you see what the amount of money people are willing to spend on the creations of others (Steam, Spotify, Netflix, Music festivals,Musea to name but a few), High fidelity has a unique opportunity to be the platform of the future were creator and consumer meet.


I agree with you, there’s a lot more to it than meets the eye typically. My concern is that many including some at High Fidelity might think that it’s one or the other, never both. For example, people wanted simpler wallets but many others did like it the way it was, rather we would want the option. Now it’s been promised completely and thoroughly that we will have back the wallet but now with the option to leave it in the cloud with them, however the fact of the matter is if no one made major pushes and expects it to just come back as it should then we may be left out to dry. That’s a concern really.

Monetary freedom is paramount to the metaverse. A place like Second Life is great but nothing is for certain, everything gets routed through LL and your existence can be nuked at any time. What’s necessary is truly a decentralized system. No one said we can’t have options or make it easy all the same, it just requires a bit of work and planning to make more efficient and effective systems.

But my desire is simple, not to lose sight of the original features and outlook because when it comes to the metaverse, people are increasingly taking notice of these censorship practices happening on major platforms. One would not have expected to see such coordinated pushes of this happening regardless of the agenda, but alas here we are. So with all that in mind, the metaverse is naturally going to move towards more decentralized approaches just as the internet is.

High Fidelity has a monopoly on this, we are the market leaders on this even if that’s only because the market is small. So why throw that away? Why go to the centralized VRChat that offers no ownership, you can lose it all at anytime? It’s a novelty. VRChat gets so much purely because of the anime. If we can move that over onto more freedom oriented platforms like this, we’re golden. We have a solid base to work from.

What we need is to not lose sight of the original goals, we will pay dearly for that mistake. Someone else will pick up the torch whereever we may decide to drop it, and that’s not something we can afford.


@Alezia.Kurdis Love that thinking on connecting domains, we are pondering similar ideas. @Revofire also love your words, agree that open and decentralized is the future of everything here.


Does HiFi have a decentralized domain lookup system? Are there other domain lookup servers? If not then everything “Open Source” will come crashing down if HiFi, Inc. does not continue to exist. Of course we are all banking that they excel.


It’s really just a matter of user-created content/UI. HiFi gave us the tools we just need to use them to make content attractive to new users.

Vanilla HiFi won’t really impress anyone, it is what we do as content creators and third party devs that will bring in users. This is akin to setting up a new website and using a default page vs having a fully developed website that serves a purpose. I wouldn’t expect a lot of hits if my website says “Hello, world! This is your default web page”. Once people can see what HiFi is capable of they will come out in droves.

I think one problem most people have is grasping how HiFi works and its intended use. This article specifically states that HiFi is a social virtual world, which it really isn’t. It is a virtual reality platform that you could use to make a social virtual world if you wanted to but is not limited to that, this is just one of its capabilities and the use case the HighFidelity team chose to showcase it. Users unfamiliar with HiFi think it is going to be Second Life, or some video game. They don’t understand it is more like a Virtual Reality website. Once we have a nice variety of fully developed domains (custom UI, etc) I think people will start catching on.

Build it and people will come.

It probably wouldn’t hurt if HFC grants were given out to develop a variety of use cases for HiFi (if they haven’t already).

@philip Embedded domains is a great idea. I imagine this would be a really good solution for handling high and low traffic areas. It would be a nice way to parcel off land too, such as for land rentals because then each parcel would literally have its own server controls (ban lists, white lists, permissions, etc). If I am not mistaken wasn’t this part of the original design concept?

With the exception of HFC, of course. But that’s ok because people could still use bitcoin or ethereum for everything, once someone implements them into HiFi. I’m just glad you guys didn’t do it yourselves so third party devs could capture this market instead.


Actually, considering how TheSpot is now organized, this would be a very excellent time to give it a try. Something like this could be interesting:

This would allow you to appear in Help when you enter the sub domain, walk out and now your in TheSpot, then walk over to the bank and appear in the Bank in GoTo. In the end, it would mean greeters can operate and even offer create rights in Help to help show people how to do things without being able to create in TheSpot or the bank while only people with proper authorization can deal with the Bank. In fact, one could go a step further and make the private room only accessible by those with the correct rights, yet is nested inside the Bank while nested in TheSpot.

EDIT: This also means during the stress test, people can STILL go to help and have that sub-domain derender avatars from TheSpot as a safe spot in case they do actually need help.